Flags removed ahead of Pride event = hate crime?

[Windy23]

Not sure how to feel about this. I don't agree with someone taking the flags down but is it really a hate crime?

BBC News - Hate crime probe after Arran Pride flags removed
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgq3ekyjeveo

Ok, that’s your prerogative. I guess there are some women also happy to support people dismantling their own rights as well. Just like some women fought against the Suffragettes. As they say, it takes all sorts.

Out of interest, what ‘hateful rhetoric’ have you seen on here?

If a trans activist can define what a gay person is without using their homophobic gender version, then there might be a homophobia issue with removing a flag.

I look forward to such a non-homophobic definition from you @suggestionsplease1 .

Pride has been hijacked by the TQ+ section. I'm all for LGB pride.

Wahey, we've got spewing and hateful. That's a bingo!

Except the SC case was brought by lesbians and the judge ruled effectively that there were homophobic tones to attempts to make sex, not reflective of biological sex.

The Cass Review found similar and there are various LGB groups who are extremely concerned about 'transing away the gay'.

So I don't actually know where you get off saying that there's a close alignment of views, because it's really not anywhere near that clear cut.

I think it's clear that there are differing views on this.

The diametrically opposed slogans "Get the L out" and "No LGB without the T" demonstrate this perfectly.

Personally I find the slogan "No LGB without the T" absolutely horrifying, because if some LGB people feel that they have nothing in common with the T and that T activism is in fact detrimental to their own interests, who the hell is anyone else to tell them they can't organise themselves and campaign without the T? Telling them they can't is clearly oppressive.

I am also minded of the Mermaids V Charity Commission and LGB Alliance tribunal hearing, where the chairman of the LGBT Consortium (which represents over 300 LGBT organisations in the UK) confirmed that none of the organisations under its umbrella recognised a sex specific definition of the words "gay" and "lesbian", and that any organisation which believes that gay men are biological males who are exclusively sexually attracted to other biological males and lesbians are biological females who are exclusively sexually attracted to other biological females would not be welcome among their number.

Let's all take a moment to reflect on the fact that there is room in the UK for over 300 LGBT rights associations (which all apparently believe that some lesbians have penises and anyone who disagrees is a bigot), but not room for even one LGB association, which must be hounded out of existence.

Tell me how that's not homophobic.

'in your mind' - is not the law.

😂 How long have you got?!

I have read posts about people "getting out their tiny violins" or saying "good riddance" to an article about trans people who are talking about leaving the country out of fear in the present climate.

I have read posts describing trans people as sexually deviant and motivated by fetish, mentally ill, criminal.

I have seen posts dedicated to collating crimes that individual trans people have committed. Can you imagine if the same was done for lesbians? That there was a dedicated site out there collating all the crimes ever committed by lesbians in order to create an impression that we are all criminals?

I have seen widespread support for and hero worshiping of Posie Parker aka Kelly Jay Keen, who has called for landlords and employers to refuse housing and employment to trans people simply on the basis of their trans status.

I have seen posts dedicated to collating crimes that individual trans people have committed. Can you imagine if the same was done for lesbians?

You've seen posts dedicated to collating sexually motivated crimes committed by trans people. Those crimes are relevant in the ongoing debate regarding single sex spaces. I think we've every right to collate those crimes.

Not till we've had 'do you want us to DIEEEEEE??!!!' Then it's bingo!

Hang fire, we've not had "literal violence" yet either.

Can you imagine if the same was done for lesbians?

Can you define lesbian first, before I imagine such a thing.

True.

According to the law, spray painting "I hate trannies" on a trans person's front door is a hate crime, but raping, murdering and dismembering a woman because you hate women is not.

Let's get real though. The list of crimes committed by lesbians wouldn't be nearly as long, would it?

My recollection is the collection extended beyond that definition.

Is the next step then collating lesbian sex crimes so that we are not permitted in single sex spaces? There are some people after all that would like to see that happen.

The law is not binary.

@suggestionsplease1 you refuse to define a gay person, a lesbian, and homosexuality because you know that by doing so using your ideology you will demonstrate your own homophobia. You follow and support a homophobic ideology and you’re now back here again accusing this forum of homophobia.

Typical hypocrisy.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom in Scotland it seems that a female lesbian refusing to have lady Penis in vagina sex is committing a hate crime.... but her then being raped by said Lady Penis owner, is just oh well, how bad too sad...

Are there really though? I've never seen a single post on here suggesting that lesbians should not be allowed in women's spaces.

trans people who are talking about leaving the country out of fear in the present climate.

Tbf that does sound a bit hyperbolic, no? In what ‘climate’? That where trans people feature in every programme from Antiques Roadshow to Chess Challenge. The BBC favour trans people, constantly featuring their point of view and ignoring women as much as possible and they even publish outright lies to further the cause of trans people. Police forces, the NHS and (a thankfully diminishing proportion) of the government are prepared to lie, bully and subvert due process in their favour. Exactly how is this ‘climate’ driving trans people away? I note that those who threatened to leave last year (or was it the year before) are still here.

I have read posts describing trans people as sexually deviant and motivated by fetish, mentally ill, criminal.

I have seen trans activists deliberately writing rules and policies to enable such people and bullying and berating those who object. Arguably, her support for a double rapist who was to be placed in a female prison contributed to the end of her career.

I have seen posts dedicated to collating crimes that individual trans people have committed.

Yes, there’s a website too - very interesting. It’s dedicated to collating the crimes committed by male people who claim a trans identity. It’s to highlight the obvious issues with giving these men free rein to enter women’s spaces and/or access women when vulnerable. Safeguarding is not hate btw.

I’m not sure lesbians have committed enough crimes to warrant a website or even a list. It’s intriguing that you would mention lesbians as a parallel example with male sex offenders who claim a trans identity - how did you link those two groups in your mind? Lesbians committing crime is very low on my ‘serious safeguarding issues’ list.

I have seen widespread support for and hero worshiping of Posie Parker aka Kelly Jay Keen,

Kellie-Jay has suffered unbelievable abuse from the trans activists - from summoning her for police interview 3 times, to doxxing her children to harassment at her home in person by a trans activist delivery driver and much more. I don’t agree with that particular point that she made but she has been unbelievably strong and is a huge driving force in the fight to regain women’s rights.

Still no actual ‘hateful rhetoric’?

I refuse to fall for a trap set by someone who mistakenly believes that definitions comprised of inherently finite and limited language can ever encapsulate the complexity of lived lives.

Especially because authorities are not collating these accurately on the basis of sex.

That'd a very long winded way of saying it's not necessary to have words for people who are exclusively same sex attracted.

And I think most people can see the lie of the land and where the homophobia exists here.

My recollection is the collection extended beyond that definition.

Well yes to be fair, murder extends beyond that definition but was included.

Also I think the man who identifies as a woman who went on a rampage attacking people with a hammer but didn’t get a prison sentence because the judge was worried about where to put him (or similar reason). I don’t think that had a sexual motivation.

The same man also allegedly made public threats to harm Kellie-Jay Keen as it happens.