Flags removed ahead of Pride event = hate crime?

[Windy23]

Not sure how to feel about this. I don't agree with someone taking the flags down but is it really a hate crime?

BBC News - Hate crime probe after Arran Pride flags removed
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgq3ekyjeveo

And sex. Sex is protected by the EA2010 too. Biological sex. Afaik it is gender reassignment that is protected, not transgender identity.

Was the intent homophobia or transphobia?

Then yes it should be treated as a hate crime.

I don't actually agree with the flags being removed but Police Scotland have stopped actually investigating low level crimes -

www.scotsman.com/news/crime/police-scotland-defends-plans-to-no-longer-investigate-every-crime-amid-claims-not-about-saving-money-4547153

And for those who wish to report a crimes, they can't actually get through anyway -

https://news.stv.tv/politics/nearly-two-million-police-101-calls-ended-before-being-answered

Sex isn't a protected characteristic under the Hate Crime Act in Scotland. Believe it or not.

The SNP claimed they were going to deal with that under a separate law re misogyny but they've shelved that now.

Here's a few key points which have been discussed ad infinitum -

• Malta
• Female heads of state
• Issues with self id in the top ranking countries.

You know. I know. Everyone knows. It's been discussed so.many.times.

What crime is committed then?

They shelved the law on misogyny when the Supreme Court ruling made it clear it couldn’t include men

Well that's not very clear and dare I say, a little less convincing, than my factual post showing all the countries that have adopted gender self ID and who remain at the top of the international tables for women's equality and wellbeing since introducing it.

Could you draw a graph perhaps?

And the Misogyny Bill was going to include men who identify as women anyway so all a bit pointless.

The Scottish Government are now in an embarrassing u - turn -

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2025/05/02/mbm-statement-on-adding-sex-to-the-hate-crime-and-public-order-act-scotland-2021/

What does ‘women’s equality’ mean when the word ‘women’ has no meaning?

I think the answer is:
I refuse to fall for a trap set by someone who mistakenly believes that definitions comprised of inherently finite and limited language can ever encapsulate the complexity of lived lives

😂
You know transgender identities poll stably at less than 1% of populations, right?

And that transwomen score poorly in all measures covered in those indices, meaning that they would bring down the average scores for women rather than bring them up, if they are included in the category women.

Or are you pretending that 20-30% of people who have M on their birth certificates are suddenly stating they are F for shits and giggles or something? 🤣 These are pretty sensible, respected countries - what would make you think that?

If ChatGPT were a TRA it would sound a lot like this thread.

• All LGB accept T.
• I refuse to define what LGB or T means.
• We exist even though no one ever questioned trans existence.
• Women's rights are dependent on trans rights.

...plus throw in a couple of (nervous) laugh emojis

So you can’t answer then?

Wow. So women are the one (supposedly) protected group that isn’t covered by hate crime legislation. A crime committed through hostility to women is less of a crime than one committed through hostility to other groups named in the Equality Act.

No wonder violence against women and girls is on the increase. It obviously doesn’t really matter.

You mean meaningless Word Salad that identifies sounding clever but doesn't pass as clever.

I think this is how I feel. The basic crime is stealing or maybe vandalism, something like that.

I think it's fairly likely that it could be from someone who has some beef with the message of the Pride parade. That could mean a lot of things though, maybe weird religious people, or maybe a bunch of disaffected lesbians, or people who think too much funding is being given to events like this while there are potholes in the streets. I don't think it's a good idea to make too many assumptions about their reasoning off the cuff.

It could also potentially be kids pulling pranks or someone with another kind of beef with the event, like they don't like the litter left around after.

But even in the former case, "hate crime" seems a bit extreme. Maybe because I don't think it would necessarily be called that if the group was a differernt one, it would be more likely to be interpreted as a political protest that crossed the line a bit.

I'm not a big fan of hate crime laws anyway though, I'm not convinced the same crimes are worse just because the motivation is about a set of things on a list rather than something that doesn't appear on the list.

She's not.

You believe that men can be women and that sex based rights shouldn't be protected in law.

That means you don't believe in protections in law for homosexuals, because they can ONLY be legally protected from people who identify as the opposite sex, if they have biological sex based rights in law.

You can try and pretend you are not homophobic but if you are actively campaigning for the removal of sex based rights / think biological sex based rights are not worth defending and adhering to, you very much are homophobic. Whether you want to admit it or not.

Option A: they were progress pride flags and have been taken down by lesbians who feel the progress pride flag is homophobic.

Option B: they were original pride flags and were taken down by trans people who feel the original pride flag is transphobic.

Option C: they were taken down by drunk teenagers to use as picnic blankets on the beach.

Option D: they were taken down by homophobic religious traditionalists who feel any kind of pride flag is anti their religion.

Which of the above is a hate crime?

Umm… if you hate the people on mumsnet so much, in the nicest possible way… why are you here? Why are you on a site where you obviously have only contempt and anger towards the others in there? Surely that’s not good for your mental health.

I'm thinking bored and or drunk troublemakers rather than an organised 'hate' group being responsible. It's unfortunate, but we've all suffered because of the actions of the feckless few.
Poster's labelling it 'transphobic', are overreacting, as the cult members always do. Using it as an excuse to attack those who disagree with them, is also par for their cause.

Such petty acts of vandalism are part of all our 'lived' experience, otherwise known as life.

Having lived in a small West coast Scotland seaside town for nearly 20 years now, my money is on option C.

I'm not buying it.

Why does objecting to male people in a female only space (which is perfectly reasonable) mean you are likely to object to female people in a female only space (which is not reasonable)?

Can you link us to an example of even one gender critical feminist saying lesbians shouldn't use women's spaces?

OK. Can you explain what you mean then?

I never said the law was binary.

That wasn't the point of my post.

I was pointing out that crimes motivated by hatred of trans people are considered more serious under the law than crimes motivated by hatred of women.