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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Flags removed ahead of Pride event = hate crime?

331 replies

Windy23 · 31/05/2025 17:40

Not sure how to feel about this. I don't agree with someone taking the flags down but is it really a hate crime?

BBC News - Hate crime probe after Arran Pride flags removed
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgq3ekyjeveo

A general view of the Pride march in Brodick with a number of people carrying rainbow flags.

Police probe hate crime over removal of pride flags on Arran

Flags were taken down from Brodick's Main Street overnight ahead of the Arran Pride event.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgq3ekyjeveo

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suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 19:37

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/05/2025 19:18

They don't, though, do they?

Given all the unsolved violent crimes, flags shouldn't just be low down on the list of priorities, they shouldn't make it onto the list at all.

Removing Pride flags sets a tone of hostility and intimidation to gay people, and fosters an environment where more serious crimes against us become more commonplace.

Rightsraptor · 31/05/2025 19:42

The parade went ahead as planned on Saturday afternoon and finished around 1pm, according to the report.

Not a very big parade then.

TopographicalTime · 31/05/2025 19:51

Women have been pursued by the police for putting up ribbon in suffragette colours, and removed from the Scottish parliament for wearing suffragette colours. Yet that's not a hate crime because the government are too misogynist to make misogyny a hate crime.
I'm really over people policing flags. Is there any evidence these were deliberately stolen as opposed to blowing away or being borrowed by drunk students?

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 31/05/2025 19:56

It might just be my Granny, who is vexiphobic?

Although interestingly she does not have cosyphobia which is why we get a knitted one every year at Christmas.

(I would actually prefer a flag - but I can't see how to tell her.😐)

Windy23 · 31/05/2025 19:57

For this to be a "hate crime" a crime needs to have been committed. Is removing a flag a crime? Would it meet the criteria for criminal damage?

"the offense of intentionally or recklessly destroying or damaging property belonging to another without a lawful excuse"

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suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:01

Windy23 · 31/05/2025 19:57

For this to be a "hate crime" a crime needs to have been committed. Is removing a flag a crime? Would it meet the criteria for criminal damage?

"the offense of intentionally or recklessly destroying or damaging property belonging to another without a lawful excuse"

Presumably someone owns the flags?

If you own a car and I deliberately drive it away and leave it on a beach have I committed no crime? Or I remove your bag, or your jacket and do the same?

Dwimmer · 31/05/2025 20:01

Maddy70 · 31/05/2025 17:55

It's the Intent and the messaging and the intention to cause division by certain hate groups I'm glad the police are taking this seriously

Oh, did the police remove them then? I am glad, but surprised, the police recognised the homophobic misogynistic divisive pride flags for what they are.

InsectsMatter · 31/05/2025 20:03

Pathetic

Windy23 · 31/05/2025 20:03

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:01

Presumably someone owns the flags?

If you own a car and I deliberately drive it away and leave it on a beach have I committed no crime? Or I remove your bag, or your jacket and do the same?

I think a car/bag/jacket is slightly different to a flag left in a public place. But I don't know, that's why I'm asking what the crime is. Are you thinking it would be classed as theft?

OP posts:
Dwimmer · 31/05/2025 20:04

Windy23 · 31/05/2025 20:03

I think a car/bag/jacket is slightly different to a flag left in a public place. But I don't know, that's why I'm asking what the crime is. Are you thinking it would be classed as theft?

Leaving a flag would be littering.

JamesWebbSpaceTelescope · 31/05/2025 20:05

Why is this in this sub topic? It has absolutely nothing to do with feminism or women’s rights.

CaptainFuture · 31/05/2025 20:06

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/05/2025 18:05

Shame they don't take rape as seriously as they take this, eh.

How on earth is physical sexual assault as serious as hurty feelz?! 😱😭

Windy23 · 31/05/2025 20:09

JamesWebbSpaceTelescope · 31/05/2025 20:05

Why is this in this sub topic? It has absolutely nothing to do with feminism or women’s rights.

Well I think it does. Or at least it potentially does. We don't know what flavour of pride flags were removed. Or what the motivation for removing them was.

OP posts:
suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:09

JamesWebbSpaceTelescope · 31/05/2025 20:05

Why is this in this sub topic? It has absolutely nothing to do with feminism or women’s rights.

You've maybe not been reading FWR enough? It takes every opportunity to progress from transphobia to homophobia.

GreenFriedTomato · 31/05/2025 20:12

Oh give over. You really are clutching at straws

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:16

GreenFriedTomato · 31/05/2025 20:12

Oh give over. You really are clutching at straws

I am am I? I've seen FWR encourage and offer advice on the successful defacement of Pride flags, which is a crime.

TheCatsTongue · 31/05/2025 20:20

Many people claim that the St George's cross has been re-purposed as a "far-right" symbol, the gay pride flag has also been re-purposed as an anti-sex realist flag.

I see the flags as little more than virtue signalling, particularly as I know many of the police forces are happy to fly the flag whilst suffering from institutional homophobia where actual hate crimes against real gay people are ignored.

The trouble is that a lot of the people happy to fly the flag are actually homophobic, and a lot of gay people I know don't care one bit for Pride.

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:30

FWR is populated by many who make wild and untrue statements that gay people don't support Pride or the rainbow flag etc, that is of course because there is an agenda at work here.

None of this is true on the ground, in our communities.

You can often identify this happening - the person making statements will get confused through their post...firstly claiming an identity as LGB and later saying 'they this/they that' a grammatical slip highlighting they are not in fact an LGB person. They will also eg. refer to 'homosexuals' which no gay person would be happy to do.

BundleBoogie · 31/05/2025 20:34

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 18:39

Putin and Orban would be proud of you, you have swallowed the rhetoric nicely 😂

No. This is from observation and listening to their own words. You may have missed several Pride orgs organisations making public statements banning ‘LGB’ views and supporters. They’ve been doing this for years.

The trans movement which has taken over Pride is eye wateringly homophobic. Why are you supporting that?

CaptainFuture · 31/05/2025 20:35

@suggestionsplease1 ah, you are the spokesperson for ALL gay and lesbian people? Your opinion is as one? Good to know!!

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:40

BundleBoogie · 31/05/2025 20:34

No. This is from observation and listening to their own words. You may have missed several Pride orgs organisations making public statements banning ‘LGB’ views and supporters. They’ve been doing this for years.

The trans movement which has taken over Pride is eye wateringly homophobic. Why are you supporting that?

There are very strong levels of affinity and respect between gay people and trans people. The discrimination and prejudice we experience has similar roots.
Many people who identify as trans have previously thought of themselves as gay and we recognise and understand the complex journeys that others go through.

We know there are concerted online efforts to 'divide and conquer' LGBT communities in order to weaken us all. We have access to briefings about this process within groups, as they are not as careful as they think they are 😂

Mumsnet is a case in point, fertile ground for others to sew these seeds and hope a few take root. I tend to think Mumsnet regulars are more intelligent than to fall for it however.

BundleBoogie · 31/05/2025 20:40

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 19:37

Removing Pride flags sets a tone of hostility and intimidation to gay people, and fosters an environment where more serious crimes against us become more commonplace.

Seeing as the ‘progress’ Pride flag IS homophobic I fail to see how that follows.

It’s a shame the trans lobby are so virulently homophobic while piggybacking on the fight for gay rights and antagonising much of the country by dismantling women’s rights and safeguarding of children.

Remind me why you support them again, as a gay person?

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:43

BundleBoogie · 31/05/2025 20:40

Seeing as the ‘progress’ Pride flag IS homophobic I fail to see how that follows.

It’s a shame the trans lobby are so virulently homophobic while piggybacking on the fight for gay rights and antagonising much of the country by dismantling women’s rights and safeguarding of children.

Remind me why you support them again, as a gay person?

The trans people I know are much nicer that the FWR posters spewing hateful rhetoric here; I have no hesitation whatsoever in wanting to support them.

BundleBoogie · 31/05/2025 20:55

suggestionsplease1 · 31/05/2025 20:40

There are very strong levels of affinity and respect between gay people and trans people. The discrimination and prejudice we experience has similar roots.
Many people who identify as trans have previously thought of themselves as gay and we recognise and understand the complex journeys that others go through.

We know there are concerted online efforts to 'divide and conquer' LGBT communities in order to weaken us all. We have access to briefings about this process within groups, as they are not as careful as they think they are 😂

Mumsnet is a case in point, fertile ground for others to sew these seeds and hope a few take root. I tend to think Mumsnet regulars are more intelligent than to fall for it however.

There are very strong levels of affinity and respect between gay people and trans people.

Except for the people excluding lesbians and gay men from Pride marches because they know that LGB are sexual orientations, and the lesbians won’t date people with penises that call themselves lesbians. No affinity or respect from trans people towards gay people there.

Many people who identify as trans have previously thought of themselves as gay

Except for the very large cohort of trans people, mostly born male that are heterosexual and would very much like to sleep with lesbians. They might think of themselves as gay ie lesbian but they are clearly not.

We know there are concerted online efforts to 'divide and conquer' LGBT communities in order to weaken us all.

No. Many LGB people are trying to reverse the damage done to public feelings towards them by the trans lobby steamrollering everyone’s rights and demanding privileges such as men being placed in women’s prisons or getting to expose themselves to women in changing rooms. (See other thread on this board).

I tend to think Mumsnet regulars are more intelligent than to fall for it however.

I think you’ll find that most Mumsnet regulars are far too intelligent to fall for the lies and gaslighting we are constantly being subjected to. Thankfully, as we are becoming less censored in general society and with the government realising the depth of the problem, it is easier to explain the issues and more people are aware and don’t like it. The truth is spreading.

CorvusPurpureus · 31/05/2025 20:56

Well, I don't know.

I would generally say that people should politely counter argue flag displays they disagree with, rather than ripping them down under cover of darkness.

Maybe this was just teenagers? My own young adult dc are eye rollers, not vandals, but the 'progress flag' does seem to be increasingly disliked by their peer group, because of its homophobic connotations.

Meanwhile, I'm sure PPs who are convinced this was a hate crime would be equally aghast if suffragette flags or Let Women Speak posters or the dictionary definition of woman were being defaced, vandalised or pulled down, right? Right...?