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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people

412 replies

bluegoldflow · 02/05/2025 22:07

Hoping this passes, it shouldn't be possible to change your sex (a biological impossibility) on legal documents. This would prevent men using this loop hole to erase their past identities and stop male crimes being recorded as female crimes.

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
OP posts:
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10
RedToothBrush · 08/05/2025 19:04

JanesLittleGirl · 08/05/2025 18:26

I don't suppose that "Fuck off knobhead" is the tone you're looking for is it?

This. But more politely.

BettyBooper · 08/05/2025 19:04

Merrymouse · 08/05/2025 18:57

"Please could you explain why you believe it is legal for any organisation to collect data on anyone's sex, given that from your reply you don't think it serves a purpose?"

Perfect. 👍

Merrymouse · 08/05/2025 19:04

Also, "Please could you explain why people who are same sex attracted are specifically harmed by data collection definitions that comply with the Equality Act.?"

RedToothBrush · 08/05/2025 19:06

Merrymouse · 08/05/2025 12:15

Finally, the proposals have the potential to interfere with the right to respect for private and family life under the Human Rights Act by requiring public authorities to record sex as biological sex in all cases regardless of whether it is justified or proportionate in that given circumstance.

If the data collection isn’t justified and proportionate, doesn’t that interfere with everyone’s rights?

Can't see sex.

Can't see sexism.

They understand alright.

They are designing the system to do this.

Wait until PM Farage gets in...

(Hell will freeze over before I vote for him, but I think we are on a one way track to him being PM if we have politicians willing to write this shite into law).

PressedOnion · 08/05/2025 21:38

RedToothBrush · 08/05/2025 19:04

This. But more politely.

Yes I think I will be polite, I’m afraid. No doubt I’ve already got a black terf mark against my name should I ever need any assistance.

This MP basically has a job for life and barely needs to do anything to get re-elected every few years. As of last week we now have a Reform county council, so it’s not a great place to live, politically speaking.

TheOtherRaven · 08/05/2025 21:54

Is the main and most important point of this data to validate and please trans people?

Since no other issues raised are even mentioned?

And can he stop using the LGB bit please to try and figleaf the reality, this has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality and will be used to harm it.

JanesLittleGirl · 08/05/2025 22:33

PressedOnion · 08/05/2025 21:38

Yes I think I will be polite, I’m afraid. No doubt I’ve already got a black terf mark against my name should I ever need any assistance.

This MP basically has a job for life and barely needs to do anything to get re-elected every few years. As of last week we now have a Reform county council, so it’s not a great place to live, politically speaking.

All joking apart, you really do have my sympathy. Your MP has not just failed to engage with your concerns but has virtual signalled all over them. They could have done the 'on the one hand but on the other' justification but they went all in and fucked you off.

On the bright side, you have a Reform CC. Now I wouldn't wish a Reform CC on anyone but it does mean that your MP doesn't have a job for life and may need to consider the views of their constituents if they want to retain their sinecure at the next GE.

SparklyPinkHairband · 08/05/2025 22:41

LonginesPrime · 08/05/2025 14:51

I’m disappointed the amendment didn’t pass, but since the birth register is going to be digitised, won’t we just be in a situation where any organisation who needs to check someone’s biological sex can just look them up on the public birth registry anyway?

Unless reliance on the new digital identity scheme is going to be compulsory for all organisations, surely any service provider that operates a single-sex service and is presented with a birth certificate or driving licence that says female when its owner looks like they might be male can just check on their phone what their original birth certificate said?

Single-sex service providers will likely know which documents are reliable for sex (currently just the birth register) so won’t they just use that? Presumably it will only take a second to check once it’s online.

Currently, single-sex services that want to comply with the law wouldn’t rely on a driving licence for biological sex verification as they know anyone can change that. Given the SC judgment, they can’t use the excuse that they weren’t sure whether to use self-ID or sex at birth, so they will know they need to refer to the original birth register to comply with the EA 2010.

Have I misunderstood this?

Good points you're making!

What I haven't gotten clear in my head though, after obtaining a GRC, is that person's original birth certificate accessible by others? If the GRC creates a new birth certificate*, does it become the sole birth certificate "in force"?

  • Still baffled this is possible.... absolutely bonkers. I wish I'd been born a day later, can I change my birth certificate? No?
GarlicPile · 08/05/2025 22:45

Oh, god, this is going to require another vast, lengthy and expensive legal challenge, isn't it. I'm so angry and exhausted.

It isn't even possible to persuade myself any more that they "don't see" the effects on women's rights or that the Government isn't deliberately trying to corrupt the Equality Act's provisions. As a data addict, too, I'm infuriated at the disregard for useful information - or rather, again, the deliberate corruption of information in order to nullify women's rights.

Waiting (despondently) to see what happens next.

MoistVonL · 08/05/2025 23:16

@PressedOnion, my Labour MP response was quite similar.

I emailed him back explaining exactly why false sex disaggregated data would disadvantage people - including trans people - when it came to healthcare. And how acting on the faulty trans data from the 2021 census would mean believing almost a third of trans people don’t speak English fluently and mostly live in a couple of immigrant-dominated areas of London.

LonginesPrime · 09/05/2025 00:03

SparklyPinkHairband · 08/05/2025 22:41

Good points you're making!

What I haven't gotten clear in my head though, after obtaining a GRC, is that person's original birth certificate accessible by others? If the GRC creates a new birth certificate*, does it become the sole birth certificate "in force"?

  • Still baffled this is possible.... absolutely bonkers. I wish I'd been born a day later, can I change my birth certificate? No?

I think the way it works is that the original birth register (which up until now has only been the actual paper register) stays the same and can’t be amended, but if someone is granted a GRC, a separate dept holding the ‘Gender Recognition Register’ (which is a private, secret register) issues a new birth certificate with the ‘acquired gender’ listed as the sex.

So as I understand it, a male with a GRC can present a short-form paper birth certificate that says he’s female, but there would ultimately still be a record of his original birth in a book somewhere in his hometown, accessible to anyone who goes to the trouble of looking for it. Obviously, people with GRCs aren’t going to volunteer that info to people, but if they were accused of a sex crime or something, the disclosure process might involve obtaining a copy of the original birth record (or the GR register to show they have been issued with a GRC). I don’t think there’s any mechanism in the GRA to amend the original record at all, as even clerical errors aren’t able to be changed, so that record remains accurate.

I haven’t seen anything in the data bill (that provides for the birth registers to also be stored online) that suggests the digital birth register would be able to be amended either, not any change to the GRA that would allow this (a few words of the GRA are modified by the data bill, but only to refer to a digital birth register as well as the paper one, IIRC).

That said, I may well have missed something key here, so hopefully someone will be along to confirm or correct as needed!

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2025 00:37

PressedOnion · 08/05/2025 21:38

Yes I think I will be polite, I’m afraid. No doubt I’ve already got a black terf mark against my name should I ever need any assistance.

This MP basically has a job for life and barely needs to do anything to get re-elected every few years. As of last week we now have a Reform county council, so it’s not a great place to live, politically speaking.

If you have a reform council, don't bet on your MP having a job for life...

WandaSiri · 09/05/2025 04:33

LonginesPrime · 09/05/2025 00:03

I think the way it works is that the original birth register (which up until now has only been the actual paper register) stays the same and can’t be amended, but if someone is granted a GRC, a separate dept holding the ‘Gender Recognition Register’ (which is a private, secret register) issues a new birth certificate with the ‘acquired gender’ listed as the sex.

So as I understand it, a male with a GRC can present a short-form paper birth certificate that says he’s female, but there would ultimately still be a record of his original birth in a book somewhere in his hometown, accessible to anyone who goes to the trouble of looking for it. Obviously, people with GRCs aren’t going to volunteer that info to people, but if they were accused of a sex crime or something, the disclosure process might involve obtaining a copy of the original birth record (or the GR register to show they have been issued with a GRC). I don’t think there’s any mechanism in the GRA to amend the original record at all, as even clerical errors aren’t able to be changed, so that record remains accurate.

I haven’t seen anything in the data bill (that provides for the birth registers to also be stored online) that suggests the digital birth register would be able to be amended either, not any change to the GRA that would allow this (a few words of the GRA are modified by the data bill, but only to refer to a digital birth register as well as the paper one, IIRC).

That said, I may well have missed something key here, so hopefully someone will be along to confirm or correct as needed!

Let's not tell anyone or Labour will add an amendment to make the digital birth register inaccessible, or worse still, alterable.

PressedOnion · 09/05/2025 13:11

RedToothBrush · 09/05/2025 00:37

If you have a reform council, don't bet on your MP having a job for life...

County Council is now Reform, City Council is Labour. I do hope the one good thing to come out of Reform taking the CC is that it will put the wind up everyone who thinks they’re in a nice, safe seat.

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:15

Etaerio · 05/05/2025 07:36

@TruthInTransition If you were born male then you are male now. It's not "discriminatory" to state a fact. How about if I said "Biological males deciding they want to invade female-only spaces is a conscious choice to invalidate our identities and erase our humanity." ? Is that a good argument?

@Etaerio I wouldnt even class that as making sense, let alome a good argument
I feel quite embarrassed for you that you would even think it was 😂

Your lack of education astounds me 🤣

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:18

Theeyeballsinthesky · 05/05/2025 07:51

the Immensely self centred word salad shouts male @TruthInTransition

the answer is still no

you’re not a woman

we want our stuff back

and obviously peoples sex should be recorded

@Theeyeballsinthesky I love how you think your words have any impact on what Transwomen do lol, bless you and interesting to say the least. If you saying that makes you happy then i wish you a happy future.

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:21

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/05/2025 07:57

Firstly, please try to write authentically vs getting ChatGpt to do it for you.

Secondly, no, it isn't bigotry to centre women (adult human females) in feminism. It is not “gatekeeping” to say that women have the right to keep and defend our own spaces, our rights, and our reality.

The endless emotional appeals and accusations of hate are just abusive gaslighting designed to silence women who dare to speak the truth (just like we suffer every day from men in general).

Trans women aren't women. They are trans identifying males. They have not lived female socialization, they are not subject to female biology, and they do not experience the lifelong systemic oppression that feminism was built to fight.

Dress however you want, have whatever surgery you like. Refer to yourself amongst your circle as your pronouns you prefer. But none of that changes the reality and it should not mean that you can barge into our spaces at whim.

We are constantly told to be kind, to be inclusive, to make room. But women fought for generations to have rights based on our sex. Not on identity. Not on feelings. And certainly not to be told that speaking about the REALITY of male violence is somehow hatespeech. To say that trans identifying males don't commit sexual and violent crimes is just another instance of denying reality. Gaslighting.

And we do not make “blanket assumptions.” We are intelligent enough to see patterns of male violence with our own eyeballs and we know that self-ID allows predators to exploit legal loopholes. That isn’t fear-mongering—it’s bloody reality.

Look at the cases in women’s prisons, shelters, sports, and changing rooms. The stories of vulnerable women being asked to LEAVE spaces THEY need in favour of protecting the feelings of men. Women who have been subjected to male violence and misogyny, expected to once again fawn and placate men.

At the risk of sounding a bit childish for a moment... It is FUCKING UNFAIR.

Trans women have every right to live safely and free from HARM. I do not hate anyone. I don't care how anyone dresses, but I begin to care when my safety starts being impacted. When my rights start being erroded.

As someone who was sexually abused as a child by a man, sexually assaulted as a teen by a man, roofied and attempted rape by a man, not to mention countless times of sexual harassment, intimidation and misogyny, I have every right to be fearful. In fact it would be illogical if I wasn't.

This is not a zero-sum game where women must sacrifice everything so no one’s feelings are hurt. It’s not our job to pretend that males are women to protect anyone’s ego.

You say “the word woman is not a threat.” But it’s not just a word—it’s a reality. A word rooted in our biology, and in centuries of oppression unique to females.

We are born into womanhood—we do not choose it. It defines a life shaped by systemic disadvantage, not identity. You scoff when we defend the word, claim it’s “just semantics,” yet fight fiercely to take it. If it’s just a word, why is it so important to you—and so silly to us?

Because it’s not just a word. It’s a political category and you all know very well that if you take our word, you can take everything else. It belongs to the people who were born into it, along with the violence, medical misogyny, economic inequality, and social conditioning that come with it.

Even trans-identified males who transition young are still biologically male, socialised as boys, and carry the benefits of that development in a patriarchal society.

You say you’re not trying to erase us. But when you demand our language, our spacea our legal protections, and then call us bigots for resisting—that is erasure. That is misogyny.

Feminism is for women. Not for males who want to co-opt our identity. Not for men who buy into gender stereotypes and think that makes them a woman. Not for entitled men who have no idea what it is like to be a eoman raped by a man, demanding access to rape shelters.

Not for individuals who threaten, dox, and abuse women for stating basic biological facts.

We will not be shamed, gaslit or manipulated into submission. We see what’s happening and we are not playing along!!!

I have encountered 3 trans identifying males in my life. The first the adult child of a family friend. This person was extremely sexually inappropriate but called himself "one of the girls". He wore clothes that normal wouldn't wear and was very provocative, daring people say soemthing. He was verbally abusive to his mother who he bossed around and he didn't lift a finger to help her (conveniently opting in and out of what women "should" be doing when it fancied him).

The second was in the post office. He cornered me in an aisle, lifted up his dress and showed me his penis through his white lace panties. This was extremely traumatising for me given my history.

And the third person started a campaign of online gate against tme when I expressed some of my views on an online platform. He sent me the most vile, disgusting messages and threats. He told me that I was on a list that is shared around, where they work together to find out our information so they can teach us a lesson.

He told me that I would be kept in a basement and beaten and tied up.

I'm sorry, but that is only a threat a man would make. How am I supposed to pretend that a woman was threstening me with those things?

I have come accross other trans identifying males in passing out in general life. The experiences have ranged from uncomfortable to scary.

I have not had a single truly positive interaction. Not one.

Edit: it is a fact that women commit far fewer sexual and violent crimes than men. It is a fact that trans identifying males commit more sexual crimes than women.

It is exceedingly important for the safety of women that we do not have these statistics muddied by lumping in trans identifying males with our numbers. This WILL have a huge affect on our ability to advocate for ourselves and you know it.

Your comment is just one big straw man argument.

Edited

@FeministUnderTheCatriarchy Says the person using ChatGPT 😂 nice try but come up with something original

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:23

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TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:26

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Waitwhat23 · 10/05/2025 13:37

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Futurama Im Shocked GIF

Incel doesn't want women to speak, shocker!

Shocked, I tell you!

(And it's yourselves, you silly wee misogynist)

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:40

Hoppinggreen · 05/05/2025 11:35

@TruthInTransition
All I needed to read from your post was your initial use of the word "Cis" and I could guess the rest

@Hoppinggreen You must be one of the intelligent ones, well observed 😂

Shortshriftandlethal · 10/05/2025 13:48

Is there about to be a new episode of Drag Race?

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:48

LadyChillT · 05/05/2025 10:49

rapturousapplause.gif

@LadyChillT Therefore if you're angry actively target the men committing the crimes and not the innocent girls jist trying to live a peaceful life

You talk about your safety being impacted yet here you are attacking innocent girls and feel you have the right to make them feel the same way Men dressing up as women (claiming to be trans) make you feel 👏 Well done, well thought out, you're a bring spark aren't you, your logic is flawless 👏

Seethlaw · 10/05/2025 13:51

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:48

@LadyChillT Therefore if you're angry actively target the men committing the crimes and not the innocent girls jist trying to live a peaceful life

You talk about your safety being impacted yet here you are attacking innocent girls and feel you have the right to make them feel the same way Men dressing up as women (claiming to be trans) make you feel 👏 Well done, well thought out, you're a bring spark aren't you, your logic is flawless 👏

There's no such thing as claiming to be trans. Anyone claiming to be trans IS trans, even the unsavoury ones.

Shortshriftandlethal · 10/05/2025 13:51

TotallyExhaustingRighteousFanatics · 10/05/2025 13:48

@LadyChillT Therefore if you're angry actively target the men committing the crimes and not the innocent girls jist trying to live a peaceful life

You talk about your safety being impacted yet here you are attacking innocent girls and feel you have the right to make them feel the same way Men dressing up as women (claiming to be trans) make you feel 👏 Well done, well thought out, you're a bring spark aren't you, your logic is flawless 👏

"Men presenting as women" is exactly what 'transwomen' are.