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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people

412 replies

bluegoldflow · 02/05/2025 22:07

Hoping this passes, it shouldn't be possible to change your sex (a biological impossibility) on legal documents. This would prevent men using this loop hole to erase their past identities and stop male crimes being recorded as female crimes.

Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people
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10
TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:50

Your message unfairly paints an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances. That is not only irresponsible—it’s dangerous. You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community. That’s not justice. That’s scapegoating.

I am a trans woman. I’ve been battered by a cisgender woman in a relationship. Should I now assume all cis women are violent? Should we judge every cis woman by the actions of Nicola Murray, a convicted child abuser? No. Because I understand that people are individuals, not political talking points or collective enemies. I am bigger than hate. I choose not to engage in bigotry, even when I have reason to feel hurt.

What you’re doing—making sweeping, incendiary claims about people you don’t know—is not just morally wrong. It could also be legally questionable. Do you have evidence? Names? Documentation? Or are you repeating narratives designed to inflame and vilify?

We must be better than this. Reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred with anecdote is not the path to progress. It's the path to division and dehumanization. You may feel justified, but that doesn’t make it just.

EmpressaurusKitty · 05/05/2025 07:51

This widespread misunderstanding needs to be addressed clearly: when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity.

Has anyone told India Willoughby?

If you're truly concerned about justice and safety, focus on the individuals committing the crimes—not on tarring an entire group

But that’s not how safeguarding works. Nobody thinks that all males are dangerous, but it is recognised the male sex is more dangerous than the female sex. So we have single sex spaces to protect women, instead of including men on a case by case basis.

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 07:51

Oh look, another man has appeared and is trying to erase women. What a surprise.

Datun · 05/05/2025 07:51

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 07:48

Men can't become women @TruthInTransition and no, men shouldn't have access to women's single sex spaces and services.

Thats the bottom line. Everything else is just lies, noise, emotional manipulation, tantrums. We're done with all that, understood?

Quite.

No, TruthInTransition, as any Mumsnetter knows, is a complete sentence

Theeyeballsinthesky · 05/05/2025 07:51

the Immensely self centred word salad shouts male @TruthInTransition

the answer is still no

you’re not a woman

we want our stuff back

and obviously peoples sex should be recorded

Moltenpink · 05/05/2025 07:53

It was used to keep Black people out of schools. To keep women out of voting booths. And now, it’s being used to keep trans women from being seen, heard, and safe.

Women didn’t gain access to voting booths by pretending and blending in with men though. We fought for our own rights and spaces.

Datun · 05/05/2025 07:53

This widespread misunderstanding needs to be addressed clearly: when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity.

"Has anyone told India Willoughby?"

or Beth Upton, or Rachel McKinnon??

I think this poster is behind the times

EweSurname · 05/05/2025 07:55

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:50

Your message unfairly paints an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances. That is not only irresponsible—it’s dangerous. You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community. That’s not justice. That’s scapegoating.

I am a trans woman. I’ve been battered by a cisgender woman in a relationship. Should I now assume all cis women are violent? Should we judge every cis woman by the actions of Nicola Murray, a convicted child abuser? No. Because I understand that people are individuals, not political talking points or collective enemies. I am bigger than hate. I choose not to engage in bigotry, even when I have reason to feel hurt.

What you’re doing—making sweeping, incendiary claims about people you don’t know—is not just morally wrong. It could also be legally questionable. Do you have evidence? Names? Documentation? Or are you repeating narratives designed to inflame and vilify?

We must be better than this. Reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred with anecdote is not the path to progress. It's the path to division and dehumanization. You may feel justified, but that doesn’t make it just.

Do you use women’s toilets, changing rooms etc?

If so, doesn’t that mean you are “unfairly painting an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances”? Why are you avoiding men, unless, by your own words you are “reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred”?

Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 07:56

i find it funny a man claiming to be a woman is accusing women of reducing people to stereotypes. The irony meter just exploded.

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/05/2025 07:57

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:13

It's deeply unfair and dangerous to judge an entire community based on the actions of a few individuals. When someone commits a crime, they—and only they—should be held responsible. No one blames all cis women for the crimes of one (Nicola Murray for Child Abuse) to be like-minded, so why is it acceptable to do that to trans women?

Weaponizing the actions of a few people (some of whom may not even be genuinely trans) to smear thousands of innocent trans women who are simply trying to live their lives is nothing short of bigotry. It's the same flawed logic that has fueled racism, sexism, and homophobia for generations.

If you're truly concerned about justice and safety, focus on the individuals committing the crimes—not on tarring an entire group. Blanket assumptions like yours aren’t protecting anyone; they’re just spreading fear and hate.

Trans women are not a threat to cis women. Bigotry, misinformation, and scapegoating are the real threats to a fair and compassionate society.

What’s worse is that anti-trans activists are now pushing for our birth sex to be listed on official documents, which would effectively out trans women in every public setting—at work, at the doctor’s, when travelling, even at a checkout counter. This is a direct violation of our right to privacy and safety. The Equality Act exists to protect us from exactly this kind of discrimination, yet some are working to undermine it under the guise of 'safety'—while actually putting us in harm’s way. Heres a rhetorical question and try to be honest with yourselves

Let me ask a rhetorical question—and I urge you to answer it honestly in your heart:

How many of you have ever truly known, spoken to, or spent time with a trans woman who simply wants to live her life like any other woman? How many of you genuinely understand the emotional, social, and physical toll we endure just to exist peacefully in a world that questions our humanity at every turn?

The word “woman” is not a threat. It is not a battleground. It is a shared identity that reflects a lived experience—and trans women, like all women, navigate life through a lens shaped by society, by gender, and often by adversity. The fear some people express over trans women using the term "woman" reveals not a concern for safety but a deep-rooted discomfort with inclusion and equality. That discomfort is not our burden to carry.

This widespread misunderstanding needs to be addressed clearly: when trans women identify as women, we are not claiming to be cisgender. We are not attempting to erase biological distinctions, nor are we trying to appropriate someone else’s identity. We are simply stating the truth of our own lived realities. We are trans women—and we are proud of that fact.

We are not asking for special treatment. We are demanding basic human decency. The right to live authentically. The right to be recognized accurately. The right not to be misgendered or dismissed because of ignorance or prejudice.

To consistently refer to us as men is not only deeply disrespectful—it is discriminatory. It is a conscious choice to invalidate our identities and erase our humanity. If you refuse to acknowledge us as trans women, you are not just disagreeing—you are actively engaging in dehumanization.

This isn’t a matter of opinion. This is about dignity, safety, and truth. If your advocacy for women’s rights excludes trans women, then it is not truly about equality—it is about gatekeeping. And if your language reduces us to something we are not, then it’s not just wrong. It’s dangerous.

A just society is one that listens, learns, and evolves. It doesn’t cling to outdated fears; it builds a future where everyone—cis, trans, or otherwise—can live with respect, safety, and equality.

Firstly, please try to write authentically vs getting ChatGpt to do it for you.

Secondly, no, it isn't bigotry to centre women (adult human females) in feminism. It is not “gatekeeping” to say that women have the right to keep and defend our own spaces, our rights, and our reality.

The endless emotional appeals and accusations of hate are just abusive gaslighting designed to silence women who dare to speak the truth (just like we suffer every day from men in general).

Trans women aren't women. They are trans identifying males. They have not lived female socialization, they are not subject to female biology, and they do not experience the lifelong systemic oppression that feminism was built to fight.

Dress however you want, have whatever surgery you like. Refer to yourself amongst your circle as your pronouns you prefer. But none of that changes the reality and it should not mean that you can barge into our spaces at whim.

We are constantly told to be kind, to be inclusive, to make room. But women fought for generations to have rights based on our sex. Not on identity. Not on feelings. And certainly not to be told that speaking about the REALITY of male violence is somehow hatespeech. To say that trans identifying males don't commit sexual and violent crimes is just another instance of denying reality. Gaslighting.

And we do not make “blanket assumptions.” We are intelligent enough to see patterns of male violence with our own eyeballs and we know that self-ID allows predators to exploit legal loopholes. That isn’t fear-mongering—it’s bloody reality.

Look at the cases in women’s prisons, shelters, sports, and changing rooms. The stories of vulnerable women being asked to LEAVE spaces THEY need in favour of protecting the feelings of men. Women who have been subjected to male violence and misogyny, expected to once again fawn and placate men.

At the risk of sounding a bit childish for a moment... It is FUCKING UNFAIR.

Trans women have every right to live safely and free from HARM. I do not hate anyone. I don't care how anyone dresses, but I begin to care when my safety starts being impacted. When my rights start being erroded.

As someone who was sexually abused as a child by a man, sexually assaulted as a teen by a man, roofied and attempted rape by a man, not to mention countless times of sexual harassment, intimidation and misogyny, I have every right to be fearful. In fact it would be illogical if I wasn't.

This is not a zero-sum game where women must sacrifice everything so no one’s feelings are hurt. It’s not our job to pretend that males are women to protect anyone’s ego.

You say “the word woman is not a threat.” But it’s not just a word—it’s a reality. A word rooted in our biology, and in centuries of oppression unique to females.

We are born into womanhood—we do not choose it. It defines a life shaped by systemic disadvantage, not identity. You scoff when we defend the word, claim it’s “just semantics,” yet fight fiercely to take it. If it’s just a word, why is it so important to you—and so silly to us?

Because it’s not just a word. It’s a political category and you all know very well that if you take our word, you can take everything else. It belongs to the people who were born into it, along with the violence, medical misogyny, economic inequality, and social conditioning that come with it.

Even trans-identified males who transition young are still biologically male, socialised as boys, and carry the benefits of that development in a patriarchal society.

You say you’re not trying to erase us. But when you demand our language, our spacea our legal protections, and then call us bigots for resisting—that is erasure. That is misogyny.

Feminism is for women. Not for males who want to co-opt our identity. Not for men who buy into gender stereotypes and think that makes them a woman. Not for entitled men who have no idea what it is like to be a eoman raped by a man, demanding access to rape shelters.

Not for individuals who threaten, dox, and abuse women for stating basic biological facts.

We will not be shamed, gaslit or manipulated into submission. We see what’s happening and we are not playing along!!!

I have encountered 3 trans identifying males in my life. The first the adult child of a family friend. This person was extremely sexually inappropriate but called himself "one of the girls". He wore clothes that normal wouldn't wear and was very provocative, daring people say soemthing. He was verbally abusive to his mother who he bossed around and he didn't lift a finger to help her (conveniently opting in and out of what women "should" be doing when it fancied him).

The second was in the post office. He cornered me in an aisle, lifted up his dress and showed me his penis through his white lace panties. This was extremely traumatising for me given my history.

And the third person started a campaign of online gate against tme when I expressed some of my views on an online platform. He sent me the most vile, disgusting messages and threats. He told me that I was on a list that is shared around, where they work together to find out our information so they can teach us a lesson.

He told me that I would be kept in a basement and beaten and tied up.

I'm sorry, but that is only a threat a man would make. How am I supposed to pretend that a woman was threstening me with those things?

I have come accross other trans identifying males in passing out in general life. The experiences have ranged from uncomfortable to scary.

I have not had a single truly positive interaction. Not one.

Edit: it is a fact that women commit far fewer sexual and violent crimes than men. It is a fact that trans identifying males commit more sexual crimes than women.

It is exceedingly important for the safety of women that we do not have these statistics muddied by lumping in trans identifying males with our numbers. This WILL have a huge affect on our ability to advocate for ourselves and you know it.

Your comment is just one big straw man argument.

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 07:57

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:50

Your message unfairly paints an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances. That is not only irresponsible—it’s dangerous. You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community. That’s not justice. That’s scapegoating.

I am a trans woman. I’ve been battered by a cisgender woman in a relationship. Should I now assume all cis women are violent? Should we judge every cis woman by the actions of Nicola Murray, a convicted child abuser? No. Because I understand that people are individuals, not political talking points or collective enemies. I am bigger than hate. I choose not to engage in bigotry, even when I have reason to feel hurt.

What you’re doing—making sweeping, incendiary claims about people you don’t know—is not just morally wrong. It could also be legally questionable. Do you have evidence? Names? Documentation? Or are you repeating narratives designed to inflame and vilify?

We must be better than this. Reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred with anecdote is not the path to progress. It's the path to division and dehumanization. You may feel justified, but that doesn’t make it just.

There is no justification for men (what you mean when you say 'transwomen') to be in women's spaces.

So once again, no. Stop bothering women and show them basic respect.

Datun · 05/05/2025 07:57

Wouldn't it be refreshing if people like TruthInTransition said oh yes, I see your point. Two thousand men rampaging through London screaming at women and defacing their statues isn't a good look. I can understand why you might be concerned when they're in your daughter's toilet.

Let's campaign for unisex spaces.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 05/05/2025 07:57

Do you have encough screenshots yet @TruthInTransition ti go back to Reddit or wherever you came from?

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 07:58

(some of whom may not even be genuinely trans)

<snort>

FlippinFumin · 05/05/2025 07:58

CleaningSilverCandlesticks · 05/05/2025 07:51

Oh look, another man has appeared and is trying to erase women. What a surprise.

You just have to note the length and tone of the post to know it was definitely written by a man. But, you know, we cannot tell a man from a woman. It is all so complicated. Give over with yourself, as my Dad would say, we can not only tell a man from a mile away, we can when they are nowhere near us. It is all so mansplainy.

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 07:59

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TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:59

I've made my points, and while everyone is entitled to their own opinions and perspectives, this moment marks our stand. I’ve said what I needed to say — consider it food for thought. We’re not going anywhere.

As much as I enjoy these conversations, it's time for me to shift focus and continue living my life. But make no mistake — this is only the beginning. I’ll be back, stronger than ever, to keep fighting for the rights of all trans women.

Until then, I look forward to all your replies, unfortunately I don't have time to respond to everyone but I do appreciate the you all for taking to respond, thank you 😊

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 07:59

This reply has been deleted

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Annoyedone · 05/05/2025 08:01

Oooh gotta love a flounce. It’s almost like there’s been a memo sent out on Reddit. Plop, lecture, flounce

JellySaurus · 05/05/2025 08:01

Men identifying as women expands our understanding of manhood to include the diverse ways it is lived and experienced.

The reality is this: men identifying as women exist. They do not live as women, because they are not female. They are not treated as women by society because they are recognised as male, and they do not face the same misogyny, threats, and discrimination as women do because they are not female.

Many trans-IDing men believe that they are treated as women by society because other men reject them, and many women fear them so do not challenge them.

Interesting that Gargoyles' objections are all Me! Me! Me! Not a mention of how terrible this would be for trans-IDing women. Men wanting exclusive rights to redefine, colonise and erase women = Men's Rights Movement, not Trans Rights.

EweSurname · 05/05/2025 08:01

Such grandiose wank

TheKeatingFive · 05/05/2025 08:01

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:59

I've made my points, and while everyone is entitled to their own opinions and perspectives, this moment marks our stand. I’ve said what I needed to say — consider it food for thought. We’re not going anywhere.

As much as I enjoy these conversations, it's time for me to shift focus and continue living my life. But make no mistake — this is only the beginning. I’ll be back, stronger than ever, to keep fighting for the rights of all trans women.

Until then, I look forward to all your replies, unfortunately I don't have time to respond to everyone but I do appreciate the you all for taking to respond, thank you 😊

You're not going into women's spaces, no.

Ta-ra

Datun · 05/05/2025 08:04

This reply has been deleted

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Gotta be. There's not a man in existence who would flounce like that

FlippinFumin · 05/05/2025 08:04

This reply has been deleted

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Soontobe60 · 05/05/2025 08:04

TruthInTransition · 05/05/2025 07:50

Your message unfairly paints an entire population with the brush of your personal grievances. That is not only irresponsible—it’s dangerous. You are attributing the actions of a few individuals, real or alleged, to an entire marginalized community. That’s not justice. That’s scapegoating.

I am a trans woman. I’ve been battered by a cisgender woman in a relationship. Should I now assume all cis women are violent? Should we judge every cis woman by the actions of Nicola Murray, a convicted child abuser? No. Because I understand that people are individuals, not political talking points or collective enemies. I am bigger than hate. I choose not to engage in bigotry, even when I have reason to feel hurt.

What you’re doing—making sweeping, incendiary claims about people you don’t know—is not just morally wrong. It could also be legally questionable. Do you have evidence? Names? Documentation? Or are you repeating narratives designed to inflame and vilify?

We must be better than this. Reducing people to stereotypes, projecting blame on entire communities, and justifying hatred with anecdote is not the path to progress. It's the path to division and dehumanization. You may feel justified, but that doesn’t make it just.

Stop with the ‘cis’ nonsense - as long as you assert that there are male woman and female women no one will take you seriously. Men are not a marginalised community. The hyperbole doesn’t work any more.

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