Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

[snickerdoodle1990]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth a few months ago and had some breastfeeding difficulties, so joined a local breastfeeding support group in my city. It’s basically a place to go for support with feeding, plus meet other mums/have a cuppa and biscuit etc. They also have a FB group. It’s become a nice, friendly place to go once every couple of weeks.

Recently, a trans-woman (male) has joined the group asking for support because their wife has not long had a baby and the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone (?) to stimulate supply (I did not realise this was possible at all)

I really really object to this person being present in a group of women who are seeking breastfeeding support, trying to come together in their breastfeeding experience and also revealing themselves intimately

I told the group leader my concerns and she basically told me to shove it - said that the group is a safe space for everyone and they support all who wish to breastfeed and that I shouldn’t come back because I am a bigot

I am horrified as are the other women, where do we all stand and what would you do?

Please stop

The irony in your comments is killing me. 🤣🤣

No male person can ever experience life as any type of woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman. The use of the adjective 'trans' in the term 'trans woman' is a false usage, why should any person have to comply with such a request to use such a term.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, those male people are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.

Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome. And I consider the outcome can only be described as misogyny.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid. Yet we are told that unless we use the language demanded by these male people, we are lacking intelligence and indeed, education. And we are to be shamed for our disrespect.

It's the gift that keeps on giving on this thread so yes that would certainly make sense!

It is a great benefit to keep the thread in the active list.

I don't think blueskies is a real person.

Repetitive exclamations, non-sequiturs, and not understanding what's going on.

not real

'a lot more discussions need to be had before issues like this are sorted out and things are set in place where everyone is happy and comfortable'

If you think that society needs to have 'a lot more discussions' about male people inducing a secretion to feed to an infant when even before the discussion takes another step, society would need to know that this is some male people's paraphilia. That some male people fetishise breastfeeding and infants sucking at their nipples. Then I don't think you see the significant safeguarding risks around this very issue.

Society does not need to have 'a lot more discussions' about opening up the potential for male people to be abusing infants in this way. We need to be acknowledging that this is putting infants at risk here.

Language is such a huge part of what keeps people confused about these issues. Consider the following sentences:

Some male people fetishise infants suckling from their breasts.

Some trans women fetishise infants suckling from their breasts.

The second sentence confuses people into thinking that this group of people are a type of woman, such as ‘tall women’ are. Therefore the message is less clear and informative than the one using precise and accurate language.

Because people disagree with you neither makes them lacking in intelligence or education. I disagree with you and am educated to Masters level and have considered doing a PhD.
It is very lazy to call people stupid rather than managing to win an argument or just agreeing to disagree with them.

In the 20-ish years I’ve been involved in breastfeeding support plenty of male partners have dropped off c-section mums and their babies, and then left and collected them at the end of the session. Anytime male partners want to have help with supporting the mums we’ll chat with them in a separate area, but they don’t stay in the main group. Supporting new mums struggling with latch & position often means whole boobs out, and most women aren’t comfortable doing that if there are various men in the room.

So no. Men don’t belong in breastfeeding groups.

Yes, I agree.

Needing a lift from your male partner because you’ve had a c-section doesn’t mean the man has to attend the session too!

I think it’s just common sense. Surely people should realise that lots of women aren’t going to be comfortable in a breastfeeding support group attended by men?

If some men want to support and their partners want them to be present, they could set up unisex groups and advertise the sessions for couples.
Sessions for mothers are for females only as only females are mothers.

The leader of this breastfeeding group is aiding and abetting child abuse.

Not to mention, she's allowing a grown man to use breastfeeding mothers as props in his sexual fetish.

@Blueskies25

You seem far too concerned with appearing ‘respectful’ towards a group of people who potentially are acting in abusive ways to infants than actually describing accurately what the needs of those infants are. Your posts don’t seem to be centring the people who need the absolute focus in this issue at all - those infants first, and their mothers who gave birth to them who need breastfeeding support second.

You don’t seem to have a working understand of the recent Supreme Court judgement, yet are on this thread confidently telling people they are wrong. While also telling others they are wrong in their statements which are quickly shown to be correct. Yet you persist in denigrating others about the information in their posts and ‘respect’ you have shown you personally cannot model towards others. You save that respect it seems for a group of male people who have a belief about themselves that they are female.

You don’t even seem to have any depth of understanding about the group you are centring in your posts. From you posts on this thread, I would suggest it is you who are being shown to the one who needs to educate themselves. While also developing an understanding the concept of respect.

It was one of the Stonewall pyramid scheme requirements to remove female words. I’m aware that a handful were saved from this by local staff resisting. But if you can produce links to a dozen or more I’d be very surprised. (Hint I’ve been reading a lot of NHS policy recently)

I don't get why one or two people on this thread are still pushing for natal males to have rights over females. The upset and offence to vulnerable women and girls has to be stopped. When they're told they are wrong they come out with personal insults about education and interlect. If they have bothered to read the thread they would see that doctors and scientists have responded. Transactivists do their selves a disservice by trying to bully women in this way. We have equal rights under the law and protected rights (I'm a women and a mother)
I see very few transmen pushing for access to male only spaces, they go about their business and only ask for a third space loo. I put my cards on the table @blueskies, how about you? Are you a transperson or are you a man on here to bully women? Because even a mother of a trans adult would not want their dignity being compromised like this.

If you had been reading a lot on NHS policy recently then it’s very surprising that I had to correct you on your completely inaccurate ‘facts’

Oh, I wouldn’t go there. There are a lot of us who have been reading NHS policies, and it all points to exactly what @KnottyAuty has said. We have all the receipts. Would you like us to share every single London NHS Trust “single-sex” (but actually single gender, ie mixed sex) policy with you?

If you would that would be helpful

I’m really shocked that needing a lift to a breastfeeding support group was used as a reason for a man to attend a breastfeeding support group. As someone who needed a lot of support to bf their first child I would have been beyond horrified to find a man present and would have left instantly.

No it wouldn't. You just want to waste women's time and energy which I suspect is your main purpose on this thread.

Yes, so would I.

You wouldn't feed it to a baby, though. Yerch!

So, I’m going to start by saying that the research that we carried out took weeks, FOI requests and a lot of very dedicated volunteers working extremely hard. I am not going to diminish their work by just dumping it all on here. I will in good faith share links to three “Same-sex accommodation” policies with you. You can, if you wish, spend your own time and energy finding the policies from the other 59 London trusts, however I will point out that they are all the same: they all allow trans patients to self-id into whatever space they wish, making a mockery of “single sex”.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/gender_reassignment_andor_transg_115/response/2693875/attach/3/Delivery%20of%20Same%20Sex%20Accommodation%20Policy.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/gender_reassignment_andor_transg_83/response/2718178/attach/2/Delivering%20Same%20Sex%20Accommodation%20Policy.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

https://www.cnwl.nhs.uk/application/files/6415/8108/4626/Dignity_Privacy_Same_Sex_Accommodation_Policy.pdf

On that basis, is it illegal to exclude a man who identifies as a three year old from a toddlers playgroup? Or a person with a disability fetish from accessing services for the genuinely disabled?

If someone with all their limbs turned up at an amputee clinic demanding treatment, they’d be be told to sod off and stop wasting everyone’s time - or possibly, if people were feeling kind, they would be immediately referred to Psych.

This is no different. TW saying they want to chest feed should be referred to MH, not indulged at the expense of genuine service users.

Are there tests done on the “milk” I fed my last baby 5 years ago my opinion may be outdated, but was told very healthy diet no medication ect coffee/tea how are these parents feeding there baby pumped full of hormones and no one is battling an eyelid at what’s going on.
I had a friend desperately wanted to feed her baby and was told no because she took medication this seems vastly unfair.
I know people above have mentioned alcohol above but I’m presuming a feeding mother would not be drinking 24/7 and it’s a small occasional amount needing filtering not constantly and we are working on the presumption that something in the male breast is actually filtering this secretion as the mothers breast would but how can you actually know?
I agree with others and feel this is fetish levels and the child is being used to satisfy them and it’s not in the best interest of the child.
I’m not Trans phobic feel these people should be able to wear what they like and cut of there own body parts if need be but there not just effecting there own body in this case it’s a child’s nutrition and developmental needs. What says what this parent wants to do with its body should be able to effect an innocent at the start of there life this could effect anything from nutrition to mental health in the long term why should this be allowed when there is no actual benefit to the baby. I don’t think fed is best in this case and a bottle of formula would have less nasties in.