Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

[snickerdoodle1990]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth a few months ago and had some breastfeeding difficulties, so joined a local breastfeeding support group in my city. It’s basically a place to go for support with feeding, plus meet other mums/have a cuppa and biscuit etc. They also have a FB group. It’s become a nice, friendly place to go once every couple of weeks.

Recently, a trans-woman (male) has joined the group asking for support because their wife has not long had a baby and the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone (?) to stimulate supply (I did not realise this was possible at all)

I really really object to this person being present in a group of women who are seeking breastfeeding support, trying to come together in their breastfeeding experience and also revealing themselves intimately

I told the group leader my concerns and she basically told me to shove it - said that the group is a safe space for everyone and they support all who wish to breastfeed and that I shouldn’t come back because I am a bigot

I am horrified as are the other women, where do we all stand and what would you do?

Nothing stopping them from referring to themselves as mothers (not on birth certs) and I doubt there will ever be a law that will prevent them from doing so

No engagement with my questions then?

Do you know anyone who grew up in this sort of family dynamics?

Sometimes we have to stand up for our rights and the rights of those with no voice eg babies. It isn’t always pleasant to make a stand but I think OP’d have most people on her side. OP isn’t a bigot, how dare organiser say that.

Those questions need to be directed to a trans woman in that position in order to get a proper insight into it

Not on a babys birth certificate the courts have established what a woman is and a woman can only be mother. Trans women can call themselves mothers not to use it to enter women's spaces. A trans man will never fight her way into a male only prison or male only spaces. Yet trans women want to push and push because their testosterone tells them to.

This is a curious post from a Doctor. What evidence is there that male secretions are beneficial to the child? Are you not curious about the safeguarding of the infant being used to prioritise this male's desire to feed a baby over the baby's own needs and welfare? What responsibility would a doctor have for that child's welfare should this family be in your care? Would you be put off raising a flag with social services for fear of being called a bigot? Or for being reported to your professional body? The fact is that the trans aspect to this creates a chilling effect where the child's needs become secondary.

Please also read up about the La Leche League being seriously disrupted by male insertion into groups and leadership positions. Many bf counsellors have quit over this issue. It is not a small issue and is likely to increase over time

There have been threads on MN before about this, though usually about men attending BF groups to support their partners rather than a transwoman thinking about breastfeeding.

These threads usually indicate that lots of the other women do find it off-putting if there is a male present at the group.

It’s easy enough to feed discreetly (if you wish to) when feeding is established, but in the early days when both mother and baby are learning, and latching can be problematic, then it can be more difficult to avoid exposing yourself. And lots of women simply aren’t comfortable with that in male company. Some don’t mind a bit, but lots of women do mind very much.

I do think La Leche and others should take note and perhaps provide a choice of sessions, with some (most in my opinion!) being women only. Otherwise women that really need help will just not show up because of privacy and dignity reasons. Which rather defeats the point.

I can’t see why the men themselves, and their partners, can’t see it as the imposition it is tbh.

Nope that is a cop out.
You have been arguing hard for this freedom for males to lactate and feed babies. So please present your understanding of the situation and the evidence to support it. So far you have been less than convincing

Exactly this!

Interesting comments from @Blueskies25 especially those telling us to do some research/broaden the scope of our awareness

From you at 22:53

“I didn’t know that was possible either, surely as they don’t actually have natural breasts the amount of milk they could produce ( if they can) would be minimal?”

And 22:54

”It’s ridiculous, that should be a safe place for women”

but now you have done sooooo much research that you believe this person can nourish a child?

What difference would it make if I did or didn’t

I said very clearly that I don't support biological males breastfeeding and that I can fully understand a biological female's objection to a biological male infiltrating their safe space so I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about?

The OP has not specified what type of group it was. And has not said it was labelled as a single sex group.

And FWIW the group I went to held in cafes wasn't a peer support group. It was one led by a professional lactation consultant who went round supporting with latches etc..no one used a cover that I can think of.

OP said no other men go

You have an opinion it makes a lot of difference.

For those interested in the problems with this at La Leche League and how their founder was ejected. https://archive.is/PZJcD

This was an organisation founded by women and for women. If male want to feed (and society decides that it is not child abuse) then they should start their own organisation. 1) a male should never be a breast feeding group support leader as they have no personal experience and that is a key criterion for doing that role and 2) female group leaders are not in a position to give relevant support to males on how to produce fluid from a male chest. 3) no organisation should be offering non-evidence based health advice to anyone full stop

ETA this is for anyone who might think this is a niche issue. it isn't. it is likely to increase in the future due to the larger number of young trans people aging into parenthood

Thanks - I didn't get your meaning so clearly in your previous post.

@Blueskies25 Don't comment on what you feel isn't child abuse in these circumstances. It's offensive to those who have had to live around someone who presents like that.

I will decide for myself what I voice my opinions on, not you

It's amazing the amount of posts that people can make without actually answering any questions that's asked of them.

Kind of impressive really.

We see it all the time, every day on these boards.

It's usually "I suggest you do some reading/broaden your mind/get on the right side of history"

Don't comment on what you feel isn't child abuse in these circumstances. It's offensive to those who have had to live around someone who presents like that.

I will voice my opinions / comment on whatever I feel like commenting on

If you have experienced a trans woman abusing a child then you should have reported it, did you do this?

I’ve read I think all the studies on male/transwomen ‘breastfeeding’. Males can produce in small quantities (usually induced by hormones) milk that is in its basic composition (fats, water, proteins etc) not markedly dissimilar to female produced milk. That’s it, that’s the extent of what we know. A million miles from ‘trans women can breastfeed.’ All of these studies are on sample sizes as to be clinically worthless. There is no evidence on its safety, the effect on the child in the long or short term, the effects on the relationship between child and birthing mother, and as people have laid out coherently here, there are lots of reasons to suppose it is likely to be harmful in many ways. I know trans people, women and men, and honestly I would be horrified if any of them thought that a trans woman breastfeeding was acceptable in any way. This is not an anti-trans stance. Being trans doesn’t mean you get to be an abusive weirdo without question. But there are so many women who are more interested in ‘being kind’ than actually engaging their minds to what is in front of them that we have allowed our safe spaces to be taken away from us and the needs and rights of ourselves and our children to be eroded for the affirmation of a tiny tiny percentage of the population, many of whom are mentally unwell.

To those posters who see no harm in a transwoman attempting to breastfeed a baby , how would you feel about a non trans identifying male taking drugs in order to induce lactation and attempting to feed a baby? If the former is fine why are we not encouraging all fathers to do this?

It could be something that happens in the near future, the way things are changing so quickly who knows