Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

[snickerdoodle1990]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth a few months ago and had some breastfeeding difficulties, so joined a local breastfeeding support group in my city. It’s basically a place to go for support with feeding, plus meet other mums/have a cuppa and biscuit etc. They also have a FB group. It’s become a nice, friendly place to go once every couple of weeks.

Recently, a trans-woman (male) has joined the group asking for support because their wife has not long had a baby and the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone (?) to stimulate supply (I did not realise this was possible at all)

I really really object to this person being present in a group of women who are seeking breastfeeding support, trying to come together in their breastfeeding experience and also revealing themselves intimately

I told the group leader my concerns and she basically told me to shove it - said that the group is a safe space for everyone and they support all who wish to breastfeed and that I shouldn’t come back because I am a bigot

I am horrified as are the other women, where do we all stand and what would you do?

The Humpty Dumpty approach to what words mean.

This is child abuse of a defenceless infant

FFS Don't be ridiculous!

@snickerdoodle1990
Contacting the press is a good idea from posters above.
Alternatively there are several ex LaLeche Trustees who have challenged the inclusion of men in breastfeeding groups, one is Ruth Lewis on x: @brupe who can point you in the right direction for help/ support.

You could also contact the children of transitioners group, with further details- ie where, when- as they have had a lot of contact with the NHS about this, you can read more about these issues on their website

childrenoftransitioners.org
on x : childrenoftrans

Many apologies but I haven't read the full thread, so may be repeating what others have said. I would like to add a word of caution here. You state:
'the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone'

Fantasies and reality are 2 different things. This practice - men using drugs to produce a liquid to feed babies and subjecting babies to lactophilia - is not permitted by the NHS. If staff enable it, or know a man is obtaining drugs privately and abusing his child in this way, and fail to report it to the safeguarding team, they can face 'all options' in law (quoting a government minister there). If this man's fantasies are being enabled by any NHS staff please advise area/ Trust if known. You can do this direct to the Trust safeguarding team, the Cots group, NHS England (email address online) and they should involve regulators/ the police as necessary. In addition, using infants as victims/ props in sexual fetishes such as lactophilia is a criminal offence in the UK.

Not just enabling CSA - this practice is not an authorised medical intervention for men in the UK, and there are NO ongoing authorised medical trials to my knowledge in the UK. There is also further information on this issue online by (midwife?) Milli Hill. If this man is being enabled by a private hospital this needs to be reported.

Finally as you know a man can never be a mother in reality or in law. The UK Supreme Court ruled in the Freddie Mcconnell case it causes emotional harm to a child to lie their father is a mother or vice versa- it is abusive. Links below

childrenoftransitioners.org/2023/07/15/six-children/
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2023/04/10/paperwork/

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/09/25/not-shutting-up/

I am really sorry you are experiencing this pressure and hope that you are able to find SS breastfeeding support- and also reach out to some of the links above to ensure the baby of the man concerned is protected from harm and abuse.

I don’t have a lot of great father stories to tell you about my ex but 100% he was there for the right reasons, like supporting me and driving me because of our daughter so I could feed her. He wasn’t the only father there and all of my breastfeeding mums had been to the same group.

This person is absolutely not feeding that baby. They may be producing some form of secretion but it will be doing nothing to nourish the baby.

Of course it's child abuse. It's a grown man forcing a child to suck his nipples. Nothing other than perversion.

Amazed at the number of posters on this thread who don’t see the material difference between a man attending to support his partner, and a man attending because he wants to stick his nipple in his baby’s mouth.

Yes of course if a woman wants to receive breastfeeding support in a single sex space they should be able to. But not all breastfeeding support groups have to offer this.

I went to a breastfeeding support group that was held in different coffee shops every week. These were open to the public. Do you think I should have said to the coffee shop manager they weren't allowed to let males in whilst I was there as I would be uncomfortable? They would have laughed in my face! If I wanted to go somewhere to get breastfeeding support without men present it would be up to me to find another group.

If the group the OP is in is not labelled as being single sex then I don't see what the complaint is.

Wrong. Legally (birth certificate wise) only the female parent can be the mother. This is also established in case law.

The problem is, we have done our research, but we have looked at wider questions, beyond “can a man lactate if given enough drugs?”

For example:

”why does a man want to lactate?”

”why does a man want to attend a breastfeeding group with women he doesn’t know?”

”why does a man want to suckle a baby?”

”why does a man want to suckle a baby in the company of women who have recently given birth and are learning to breastfeed?”

All equally valid questions to ask, and the answers that come up are not “because he is a woman really in some ineffable way that has nothing to do with his sex”.

I suggest you broaden the scope of your awareness.

I'm so sorry you have been treated so poorly.

Thus sounds like a leftie group who is all inclusive. As wr know women want and need privacy with other women and to feel safe. I would have aired my concerns too.

The cheek of banning you, a woman from a breastfeeding group and allowing a biological man to gain advantage from support that is a female support group, blows my mind.

As a previous poster has mentioned too, is the group a procure or public run group? If public I would report them.

The law is clear on boundaries for women only so this behaviour needs to stop. If trans women are so set upon having their own support, perhaps they should consider creating a support group of their own and not impede on the privacy of biological women.

No he doesn't and stop pushing women deserve safe spaces to breastfeed without a man gasping at them. If he's so serious to breastfeed why don't he book a private appointment with a breastfeeding consultant. He knows what he's doing stop protecting him.

It absolutely is, the child is being used. Get your blinkers off.

I'm not questioning your story OP because mumsnet kick you out for being honest but I'm a doctor and there is no way I or any of my colleagues would prescribe medication to a man to make him lactate and neither would any reputible gender services.

I don't think this is going to become a mainstream issue. If you're not happy with a biological male infiltrating a group which is to support what is fundamentally a biological woman's issue then find another group. This imo isn't unreasonable. I would personally just say why and accept being labelled a 'bigot. You're a bigot if you ostracise or persecute somebody who is transgender. You're not a bigot for wanting to defend the rights of biological female that our ancestors fought for for decades and that present day females are still fighting for.
You're not a bigot For wanting your children to grow up in a world that understands that we can call ourselves what we want and dress how we want but we are born assigned to a biological sex.

We can and should challenge the social constraints of being born male/female but nothing anyone says and does can make us anything except the male/female we were born as. Also, somebody's desire to be something that they're biologically not doesn't trump Scientific truth. It doesn't trump somebody's right to voice this scientific truth. It doesn't trump a biological female/male's right to protect themselves against the lived and unique challenges that come from being a biological female/males.

They can an do often refer to themselves as mothers

Doesn't make it true...

Oh, stop being silly

That is a different sort of support group. A group in a private space with breast feeding support health professionals enables women to uncover, to get to grips with being helped to latch on properly and so on. It can be quite hands on and exposing.

It’s not the same as meeting in a coffee shop with a group of breastfeeding mothers.

But, from your other posts, you really don’t think other women should be allowed boundaries without sneering at them that you wouldn’t be bothered by it, why are they so prudish/over sensitive/bigoted/close minded and basically uncool, big old meanies for not wanting to be used by a man to validate his delusional beliefs.

How would you feel about non trans identifying sperm producers, perhaps the sperm provider for your child as an example, taking drugs and chest feeding a baby to help lighten the load or to feel more involved? If it’s perfectly safe why are we not encouraging all sperm producers to start helping out this way?

What they cannot do however is “feed” the baby.

I suggest you broaden the scope of your awareness

Thank you for this clarity and common sense. It is a relief to have a clear path for this to be properly dealt with

Yes it bloody does matter. Mother is a sex-specific word. The removal of the words females have to describe themselves is a deliberate tactic. Enough.

This is why it is really important to understand context or to give your own context when offering advice or opinion. Your situation is very different to the groups I have attended and not the sort of La Leche set up at all. Peer support groups are completely different to the technical advice sessions

They don't want to see it because then they would have to dismantle their belief thatn somehow a man becomes a woman if he says so.

And they'd have to then agree with all the unfashionable grumpy women on here who are not prepared to "be kind" without also doing a bit of critical thinking alongside this.

I don’t mean make a stand for months, she should just go along and if organiser wants to make a scene then everyone will find out why OP is banned - the organiser is being unfair.