BlueTitShark also expresses things that are factually incorrect, and she would know they were incorrect if she had read a bit more on this board:
Except that, if anything, this thread is showing that feminism is nowhere all inclusive. Inclusive of disability for example. Or lesbians etc….
Now my take on the feminist board position of trans people…. (I’ll ignore the dig about ‘reading more threads on here’ as if this was the only source of information 😂😂😂)
For many years, the idea was that transwomen shouldn’t be in women’s toilets. No discussion about the difference between self identified and those who had surgery. The really recent ‘converts’ and those who have had surgery 30 years ago. The push has always been to take men out of women’s toilets.
What hasnt been there? One question: once this is in place what will happen?
Because there has been no thought about other groups involved, the consequences haven’t been thought out.
1- only women in women toilets. How are we going to know who is a woman and not a man in a dress? Can you tell?
The real world is saying that lesbians are been told to get out or have to prove Theyre women because ‘they don’t pass’. It’s been said for a while despite the many claims on here that ‘it is so obvious. You just have to look at the Adam apple’ etc… In reality, those who are questioned are often ‘male looking’ lesbians.
And then of course, you also have trans men. Who are supposed to now be in women’s toilets right? Again, how do you know if Theyre transmen and not a more feminine looking man?
How are you supposed to police that and implement it? How is that supposed to make women safer??
Do you really think that if these ideas had been put together with gay and lesbians they woukd have created a situation where homosexuals are more likely to be questioned??
It doesn’t even solve the issue if men looking people in women’s toilets. Rather it creates tension. Are you a woman or a woman dressed as a man? Can you prove it? Putting all the responsibility onto a category of women. But I suppose that’s ok and no big deal vs safety of women right?
2- as transpeople, of both sexes, are pushed outside the usual toilets, where are they going to go?
Lots of talks about single sex toilets, how dangerous they are. How there should be gaps at the bottom of doors etc…
Plus ofc Theres reality. No way anyone (workplace, public buildings etc…) are going to have single sex toilets on the top the normal ones when it’s taken years of advocacy to get disabled toilets??
So what’s happening? Disabled toilets are now also the reasonable answer to the trans issue.
Again, if people had sat down with disabled groups, do you think they’d have agreed to that?
But I suppose it takes transwomen out of women toilets. So problem solved right?
And that’s wo going into the whole ‘trans people are just faking being disabled’ etc… seeing in this thread which feeds into the whole rethorics about benefit scroungers and disabled people aren’t really disabled etc….
Does it mean I think transwomen should use women loos in all cases? Nope.
That transwomen should be in female category in sorts? Nope
But don’t come and tell me you were thinking of how other groups, who have needs conflicting with the implementation of the ‘all or nothing’ approach have been considered.
Thats what I mean about not being considered. It’s having such a tunnel vision, very black and white thinking that anyone else needs are pushed aside. It’s not involving them.
For your information, the same thing is happening when it comes to disability right and/or accommodations. Often thought out by abled who have no direct experience and either no input of the disabled community.
And then when it doesn’t work? It’s disabled people being awkward.
In reality, it’s simply ableism at play and the felling that ‘I know better than you and I have THE truth/solution’ (oh it reminds me something….)