Disability Rights: 50% of trans people are disabled

[Pluvia]

The full statement is here:
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/disability-rights-uk-opposes-uk-supreme-court-ruling-‘biological-sex’?srsltid=AfmBOooL_DLt2ICsIzkNI8RfYmVptrvAcV4Z6sTZCnqR3o97kzFnwEFH

The opening paragraph is this:
Disability Rights UK is deeply saddened by the UK Supreme Court’s ruling that declares trans women are not 'biological women'. As part of a movement that has always called for ‘nothing about us without us’ – we’re particularly concerned by the court’s exclusion of Trans voices in their decision, and their failure to be led by the lived experience of one of society’s most silenced groups. Decisions about any group’s rights should never be made without the involvement of those most impacted.

Later it says:
Around half of Trans people are also Disabled. Government policies already place disproportionate barriers on accessing vital healthcare, and now this ruling also erodes their protections against discrimination.

Can it really be true that half the T population is disabled? All those strapping young men and women who've turned out to hiss and spit and threaten over the years would suggest otherwise. So would the huge, angry TW who has cut a decimating swathe through every woman-only service in my area, or the men in pink at last week's trans rights march moaning about the loos at Waterloo.

Is this lining up disabled loos for TWs?

And for the avoidance of any doubt, I certainly don't think transpeople should be using the disabled loos, either. Why anyone would conclude that because one person made one post suggesting they did and then disappeared that she represents the whole of Feminism Sex and Gender is a mystery. Anyone who posts regularly here would know that there is very little support for trans in the disabled loos and that anyone advocating for that is likely to be a transactivist.

Yes it’s become a word that covers a huge range of issues.

Actually that is a good point and one I hadn't noticed. There are those who claim disability benefits and who have had to go through the (sometimes arduous) process of evidencing their claim. But on forms the question is something like "Do you consider that you have a disability?" or similar which is slightly different

Tell me about it. I could bend your ear about it all evening. It’s made life with a mobility impairment significantly more challenging, and I’ve yet to meet anyone with a traditional physical disability who doesn’t fume at the notion that disability is something you self identify into.

It hasn’t BECOME a word that covers too many things.

20~25% of the population is disabled. It’s not new. It’s not because we’ve made criteria more ‘encompassing’.

It’s because disabled peoole have always been there. It’s because disability isn’t just ‘using a wheelchair’. And we’re only just realising the extend of it.

Also please don’t go down the route of ‘it’s become a word’… that implies that there is some sort if ‘self identification’ going on and it’s not true. 🤬

And that’s totally normal.

You might fill the VERY ARDOUS forms (not just sometimes) firms for PIP and not label yourself as disabled but chronically ill instead.

Autistic people often refuse the ‘disabled’ label too despite being unable to work etc…

And ofc, many disabled people actually do not claim OIP because the system is so awful that Theyre put off even starting. It’s not because you dint claim PIP that you’re not disabled.

It’d be nice if abled people were not telling us what label to use tbh.

Winter Bones

They may only be one poster, but they are representative of a small group of feminists who aren't being intersectional and considering the plight of disabled women who may well now have to put the battle armour on to protect ourselves and our rights as disabled people.

No, they are certainly not representative of the massive majority on here! @Unitarily isn't a regular poster on this board and has posted on AIBU that disabled toilets are actually accessible toilets open to anyone who needs them. Take it up with her.

Before she posted here @Unitarily had posted something goady on another Feminsm Sex and Gender thread. I know because I started that thread and confronted her about what she'd written.

This board is regularly targeted by transactivists in various forms, often well-disguised, who come looking to stir up trouble. If you see an opinion you don't like you'd be extremely foolish to assume that the poster is a regular here or typical of the women who post here.

How would you feel if I strayed into a Disability thread where someone had strolled in and said something really controversial and then got angry with you and accused all you regular Disability posters of sharing their views?

@Pluvia are you expecting anyone coming on these threads to know the history of other posters ? Who is a regular? What sort of ideas theyre posting? And whether it reflects a; idea that is widely shared, whether it’s in here or p, gasps, outside MN??

People are reacting to what’s on this thread. That’s pretty normal.

I’m delighted for you that you’ve not come across it.

I was actually asked a mad question by HR last time I changed job roles and was doing the whole OT recap to see if my reasonable adjustments needed review. They asked me, perfectly seriously if my autism was “self diagnosed or diagnosed by a medical professional”. I hope she knew this was deranged and just had a good poker face, and if that’s the case, I don’t actually blame her, because it’s everywhere. In my sector(s) anyway. But also you see it online too. It’s disproportionately people in their twenties, but not always.

No, but I would expect them not to assume that everyone who habitually posts on this board agrees with one highly inflammatory post, which is what's being implied.

It might be a good idea to do an advanced search to see whether the controversial poster has form or is a regular on a particular board before you accuse everyone on the board of holding the same views.

Oh and yes OFC chronic illnesses can qualify for DDA protection, and for PIP, but throwing that distinction in the mix is wilfully ignoring the point under discussion which is self-identifying as having a disability/chronic condition instead of being diagnosed by a specialist in the traditional way.

All of which causes issues for those with real, diagnosed issues both visible and invisible but in the case of mobility impairment it can physically displace disabled people.

Errr… that wasn’t my point?

Of course, something like autism (like dyspraxia, POTS, RA, osteoarthritis etc etc) have to diagnosed. Theyre a medical diagnosis.
This is even more true at work (because they won’t implement accommodation if you dint have a diagnosis).

The comment I was answering to was alluding at the idea that so many people are disabled now, they can’t all be disabled.
Hence my ‘self identification’ comment. That there are so many disabled people nowadays due to ‘self identification’.

The whole ‘self identification’ re autism is a whole other issue imo,p. One that I’m not aware happens with any other medical issue.

So according to you, one can only prove they are disabled if??

They get PIP?
They have a diagnosis (but that will not say Theyre disabled. Just that they have xyz)?

And then? Do you think when people are filling forms they should also include a copy of their diagnosis to prove they are disabled?

Er.. Pluvia, gently, you might want to re-read the bit of my post you quoted.

I said "they are representative of a small group of feminists"

I'm not sure how you got from that, to replying "No, they are certainly not representative of the massive majority on here!"

I never said they were.

Accommodations are most definitely being made in some workplaces for undiagnosed conditions. I don’t know if such cases are somehow being waved through under formal HR/OT reasonable adjustment procedure, as that confidential, but most definitely there are multiple cases of quiet rooms, disabled loos, different break schedules and even the disabled parking being run on basically an honour system, and multitudinous smaller accommodations besides.

In the old days, conditions had to be diagnosed, but for all practical purposes, not now.

There is an, admittedly niche, phenomenon now where attempts to increase public understanding of ambulatory wheelchair use (ie that many wheelchair users aren’t paralysed and so can walk a bit), has been hijacked by a handful of people who would never be given a wheelchair by the NHS or a charity but have self-prescribed themselves a wheelchair “because they don’t have the spoons” or similar.

This is all terrifyingly real and has developed alongside the whole trans phenomenon.

My last post was to @BlueTitShark

If there’s some informal screening, the question “Do you have a disability?” does the job. There’s a reason the notion of “self identifying as disabled” has taken off, and it’s not a reason to do with medicine, science or material reality.

But yes, when I declare a disability for anything substantive, I have to provide proof. Last not for example, I renewed my Nimbus membership, which is a disability registration scheme for visiting the theatre. They used to accept blue badges, now they do not, but higher rate PIP awards for mobility or doctors reports were on the list of acceptable evidence. I’m wondering about the change in policy for blue badges (and I’ve some thoughts there) but I have no objection to being asked for evidence because it helps me that disabled provision in theatres is not (yet) a self-identifying free for all. So I’ll supply evidence.

@BottleBlondeMachiavelli you can't use whether people qualify for a wheelchair or not via the NHS as evidence of disabilty. The NHS will only give wheelchairs to people who can't walk, or who can barely walk.

I don't 'qualify' because i am still mostly mobile.. i can potter around my house and garden unaided with plenty of places to sit/rest, stools to park on.. in public i tend to use crutches, which might get me around Tesco or sainbo for an hour to do my shopping.. but if i have to go out for a day, or attend a convention or anything like that, i use a chair, that i bought, because otherwise i'd be in too much pain to do the day out.

The NHS still won't give me one though.

Oh I didn’t know it had got even worse. Or maybe the variation between NHS trusts is what’s worsened.

Sorry to hear that. It’s expensive to self fund.

I was issued a manual chair, even though I need an electric chair for daily use. That seemed to be that standard situation at the time. Now I keep the manual in the garage as a spare. Every two years someone from the NHS wheelchair service comes and examines it and certifies that I still need it. I always point out that it’s my spare and why and they grimace and nod and carry on. Crazy system.

Transabled is, unfortunately, a thing.

Blaire White video on transabled people.

I have to say that your comment about ‘not having the spoons’ has really upset me. I have lupus and we talk about ‘spoons’ as shorthand for explaining that we really need to ration our energy use. For example when I’ve been unwell, just having a shower, making lunch and doing one load of laundry can leave me exhausted - I.e. no spoons left. And exhausted means you feel like you’ve been run over by a bus.
And it’s not so easy to get a blue badge - I sent in tons of letters from consultants about my diagnoses. None of the lupus patients I know would be getting themselves a wheelchair if they didn’t need one. Invisible illnesses and disabilities are real.

I am on holiday with my family so not really in the mood to entertain this. And fair enough I had my questions about your motives too.

Advocating for a third space solution is not a TRA position. Sure maybe controversial as disabled posters have pointed out but that doesn’t make me a TRA and as I pointed out previously we need to be careful to ensure public sentiment stays on our side.

We succeeded getting TW out of the women’s single sex. To now ban them also from accessible loos to many will be seen as an untenable position.

Thats it really. Nothing more to say on it.

Ah. Sorry I wasn’t aware. So that’s something else they’ve purloined. It’s all very disturbing.

And no my blue badge wasn’t easy to get and I don’t think my LA have been captured @Freda69but I wonder if something is going on somewhere that is making them less trusted.