"Trans women ARE biological women"

[TangenitalContrivance]

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

How do you know they’re not?

There is no such thing as intersex. The DSD community has long rejected the term as offensive and misleading, and also asked not to be dragged into this debate because, honestly, what's it got to do with them? But TRAs continue to exploit them by spreading egregious misinformation and offensively suggesting that a person with a DSD isn't a proper man or woman.

Every single person with a DSD is male or female. Every DSD can occur only in a male or female body. That's how you know it's a DSD and which one it is. All of them, every single one, is a variation of development along either the male or female pathway. Some of them are a bit confusing but it clears up once you understand the difference between karyotypes (the chromosomal makeup) and reproductive sex (whether the body is formed around the production of large or small gametes).

I tell you what is weird though.

Somehow, and I’m not clear how, sexual predators always seem to target women.

Even more bizarrely, sexual predators seem to primarily be men. Including a percentage of men who identify as women.

I don’t know how this happens when the subject of sex is so blurry. It’s almost as if these men have some kind of psychic ability to spot the women. Only possible explanation…. 😑

Attached: a list of just some of the trans women who have sexually assaulted women in private spaces. There are many, many more.

Just a reminder of why all of this obfuscation and attempts at sleight of hand are deeply harmful. Women are being raped, killed, and sexually assaulted by men. Including men who identify in different ways.

Perhaps, just for once consider women and our safety, rather than tying yourself in increasingly bizarre knots to centre a small group of men.

For clarity, this is to anyone who thinks sexing humans is complicated and trans women are some kind of secret biological female. Get to fuck. So tired of this all now.

Yes they are. They trans'ed over into a "woman" so what was their starting point? A robot? A cat? Or a human male? 🤔

As for your second paragraph. To paraphrase Christine Keeler "They would say that, wouldn't they".

Edited for spag

The law disagrees. They are men.

I hope that helps.

I think it's disgusting they feel other men won't accept them, but that's not a women's problem.

Of course transwomen are men, and you know it. You literally have to be a man to be a transwoman. That's what the 'trans' part means. That's what makes them transwomen. That's the reason a born female can't be a transwoman.

This is the absurd statement that your entire ideology rests on. It is a lie, an argument by assertion. A man is an adult human whose body is formed around the formation of small gametes.

And even if it is true that these men who demand access to female changing spaces rather than using a designated mixed sex one have no interest in seeing the women (by the way, would you like to buy a bridge?), it doesn't matter. The space is for women and they are not women. Their presence, even if they are benign themselves, opens the door for predatory men. And it also makes the space intolerable for women who can't tolerate a mixed sex changing space, even if they aren't physically attacked. It removes their option. It excludes them from society.

A female changing space that admits transwomen is a mixed sex space. If transwomen are happy to use a mixed sex space then it shouldn't matter if the space doesn't lie about being single sex. If they really do just want a safe space to change and aren't invested in the bodies of those around them, a mixed sex space will actually draw less attention to them than the single sex one. At the end of the day, they do not have a human right to access naked women in order to validate their self image. That is not what changing spaces are for.

Oh lord, we're not back to 'cis' and trans brain scans again?

Is there a TRA arguments template from 2019 kicking about on Reddit at the moment which hasn't been updated or something?

They are men, though. In reality and in law.

I understand basic biology perfectly. I also understand that real biology is far more complex than the simplistic version you are describing. Gene expression is not a fixed blueprint, it is influenced by countless factors. The same chromosomes can produce very different outcomes, as medical science has repeatedly shown.
If you think quoting ‘everything comes from the genome’ ends the discussion, you might want to revisit more advanced biology textbooks.

Also not all “trans women” are gay men.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

Orwell's quote seems so pertinent on this. You have to seriously deny reality to argue that sex is not binary. It's absolutely fascinating from a psychological perspective.

I think I’ve very nearly got house.

A trans woman is a man.

now

and forever.

Lol. The one thing that thousands of generations of humans have known - when they have known fuck all about anything else - is male and female sex. Across every single known culture on the planet.

I do actually think that some transwomen who want to access female spaces don't do it because they want to get off on the naked women. But they certainly want to exploit female bodies and women's autonomy, in using them as validation tools for their own self image. (And a note here - nobody is obliged to uphold anyone else's self image. That's why it's called self image.) After all, if they really do only want a safe changing space, then a designated mixed sex one will do the job, being the same thing as a "female" space that admits males, and will draw LESS attention to them because they won't stand out as males in a female space.

Take the case of Dr Beth Upton, the male doctor who used the female changing rooms at NHS Fife. Female nurse Sandie Peggie would not use the changing rooms while he was in there. Upton objected to this and, by his own admission, kept notes on his phone every time Sandie refused to use the space while he was in there...in case he had to "escalate" it. His word. In case he had to "escalate" the matter of a woman refusing to take her clothes off alongside him.

I don't think Upton was driven by sexual attraction to Sandie. But he did want her to undress alongside him in order to validate his image of himself as a woman and was angry when she refused to let him use her and her female body as props. And of course, we terfs all know who got hounded at work and suspended...

Yes, we all know about DSDs, but can you show my evidence where a genetically male fetus develops into a fully functioning (gamete producing when adult) female, or vice versa, because of environmental factors, or epigenetics, or whatever you want to bring into play?
Oh, and explain how this has anything to do with trans.

Human sex categories involve making a decision based on whether the person's body is formed around the production of large or small gametes. This takes into account chromosomes and body parts. And it is not dependant on whether those gametes are produced at the moment, in the past or in the future. No human on earth cannot be categorised in this way.

'Lived experience' is not relevant for the categorising of human's body for reproduction.

And link up the studies that you refer to about brains. Because so far, everyone who makes that claim links up studies that simply do not withstand scrutiny. If those studies did in fact withstand scrutiny, then there would be brain scans used for diagnostic tools.

Instead, what we know is that if a male person takes particular hormones, their brain reacts in a particular way. If they have particular interests, and it has also been posited that sexual interest is included in this, that they will show some similarities.

Female brains are different in structure to male brains due to the skull size and shape, that leads to different % of grey matter, and there are also other differences such as female people have more delicate brain fibres. These are not differences seen in male people with transgender identities.

Real biology - is that like real islam or real christianity?

Surely transitioning is redundant since a TW is not transitioning to anything sex based. A TW is a man. That right? So what does "trans" mean anymore now? Learning how to wear a dress, tights, heels, carry a handbag, choose make up? That's transvestism, and that's fine, off you go. But you never were, nor ever will be an adult human female.

“Mumsnet is 4chan for terfs”

If sex is too complicated to be a knowable reality, why do trans people use hormones and surgery to change their bodies? What are they trying to change from? And into what else?

Yeah, that one is certainly not new.

........................we have just settled the point that transwomen are, indeed, men.

In the highest court in this land.

On Wednesday.

Don't you remember?

I had understood that that was the catalyst for this strange semi-permeable membrane between Mumsnet and Reddit that we are seeing today.

If not, what exactly are you upset about?

I think it’s more like a ‘real Scotsman’. As opposed to, say, three Scottish women.

One last classic:

”The amount of physiological changes that occur from transitioning, the hormone changes and then bottom surgery on top of that clearly means we are biological women.
We may not be genetically XX. But I have a vagina and therefore I am of the female sex. My sex organs are female.
The muscle changes, hematological changes, sensation changes, skin changes... Everything... Biological changes.
”