"Trans women ARE biological women"

[TangenitalContrivance]

I see this argument and comment more and more the last few weeks and hugely over the last 3 days.

For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1k1tliv/trans_women_are_biological_women/

This statement, and the comments underneath it absolutely baffle me.

The approach, one that I am sure will only work with a minority of the people who said TWAW, is to undermine the definition of words, yet again, and deliberately cloud the water when it comes to speaking clearly and using terms that everyone agrees with

I have seen it said in more places than Reddit however, and by respected people

Yep this.

No not that.

all human being are always either male or female whatever dsd they have or do not.

every. Single. One. And you can’t change from one to the other.

Its not. Ever heard of Fa’afafine in Samoa? You probably havent. The binary system that exists in the western world is far from a universal concept.

Yes we have, because it’s been trotted out dozens of times before and in no way represents any challenge to the factual truth of binary sex classes in humans.

The Fa'afafine are not considered to be women, or even a mix of female and male. They are known to be men. Women can't be Fa'afafine. And it's also understood to be a solution to the "problem", as it might be seen, of gay or effeminate men - that is, men who don't perform masculinity/male gender as expected. In other words, yet more proof that sex is real, and gender is woo. Because a man can wear clothes and behave in a way that is associated with women, and he's still a man.

Its not. Ever heard of Fa’afafine in Samoa? You probably havent. The binary system that exists in the western world is far from a universal concept.

We really have stepped back in time. Every single stupid argument that has been debated in this forum many times before is making a comeback.

Thats a very old one.

We're really replaying the classics here today on gold.

Now Bachman–Turner Overdrive with you ain't seen nothing yet, followed by a vague explaination of 2 spirit.

I particularly enjoyed the "you probably haven't"..... 😂😂

Is this a result of the SC decision? They can no longer lie about the law so need to return to twisting reality.

That did make me laugh!

Strong vibes of a teenager saying 'I've discovered this cool band called Nirvana' thinking they've been very original and being astounded when their parent brings out a ticket stub from a concert.

No that. That user is using standard obfuscatory tactics, common among people who don't understand the difference between karyotype and reproductive sex.

Well over 99% of people have XX or XY chromosomes, with XX in a female body and XY in men. But the chromosomes are the karyotype, not the body's formation around creating large or small gametes. People with Swyer's syndrome have XY chromosomes but they are female (in essence, the Y chromosome doesn't work) because their bodies are formed around the production of large gametes (uterus and fallopian tubes, no male anatomical parts) although they do not have ovaries. People with XXY chromosomes have Klinefelter syndrome and this occurs exclusively in men. In the vanishingly tiny number of people with DSDs, the proper biological sex can be determined through further markers. In the one we see most commonly, because it's the one that most of the cheating men in women's sport have got (XY 5ARD), it's actually very easy to determine. They have XY chromosomes, male levels of testosterone (don't give me that 'high testosterone women' crap, there's only so much you can produce without testes and the levels are nowhere near each other) and further investigation usually reveals internal testes and a micropenis.

So while it is true that XX and XY don't ALWAYS indicate male/female (only in comfortably over 99% of people), it remains true that all humans are either male or female, even if a mistake is made initially. But this is usually the obfuscation and misinformation that people move on to once it's been established that DSDs are all variations of male or female.

As I think I mentioned earlier...why did nobody ever find this concept so difficult during the zillions of years women were being denied votes, education, government positions and land holding rights? And why do they still not find it complicated when determining which changing space they want transwomen to be able to invade?

I know, mad. I even know some Samoans, and many other Polynesians and Melanesians.

I think it is. It certainly started a day or two after the court ruling.

There is no such thing as male and female brain. Its a dated scientific argument which has been debunked. Neuroscientists know this - the slight differences shown are not definitive and dont justify a male and female brain. Environmental facts and individual make up are more important.

I went to the trouble of addressing it even though I, like you and everyone else who didn't tune into this entire discussion 30 seconds ago, rolled my eyes until I saw my own optic nerves. I'm doing the same with all the "advanced biology" and "DSDs" bullshit. It's so, so frustrating, and also just incredibly boring, because we all know we've been going over it for literally years. But if it's the price to pay for the Supreme Court judgement, then it's worth it.

I hope you guys telling us that we "probably haven't heard" all of your cutting edge enlightenments appreciate what we're doing for you.

But you said "yep, this" to someone posting this:
If you’re laughing at trans women for pointing out that biology is complex, especially when there’s lots of research which says the brain structures of trans women are different to those of cis men, you’re not defending science, you’re exposing how little you actually understand it.

Eek. Awkward.....

This link might be interesting. Or you could look it up in PNAS.

‘Deep learning models reveal replicable, generalizable, and behaviorally relevant sex differences in human functional brain organization’

You know what I don't think they've seen yet? "You have a gender neutral toilet in your house/there are gender neutral toilets on aeroplanes". I mean, if we're recycling "arguments" that have been doing the round for 5+ years, that one's surely due to make an appearance. Or is that one so completely asinine that even the newest cohort to wade into this topic won't touch it?

Do you remember that the Samoan PM stated that Hubbard should not have been allowed to compete. He was very clear that Hubbard was a man.

"This fa'afafine [a Samoan third gender] or man should have never been allowed by the Pacific Games Council president to lift with the women," Mr Tuilaepa told the Samoa Observer.

I think I have, not sure on which thread, there are so many.

"You probably haven't"

Tell another!

Do you think Wednesday's judgment dropped from the sky into our laps?

We've been at this for YEARS, matey, and - as you should have grasped from this thread by now - we've heard it all.

Yes we have, we've even head of the māhū in Tahiti, and they are male too.

Must be my silly elderly lady-brain, but all this word-cloudery still doesn't link from:

Sₑₓ ᵢₛ a ₛᵤₚₑᵣ-cₒₘₚₗᵢcaₜₑd ₛₚₑcₜᵣᵤₘ ₜₕaₜ ᵢₛ ᵢₘₚₒₛₛᵢbₗₑ ₜₒ cₒₘₚᵣₑₕₑₙd

to

ₜₕₑᵣₑfₒᵣₑ ₘaₗₑₛ bₑₗₒₙg ᵢₙ fₑₘaₗₑ ₛₚacₑₛ

It would be delightful if our esteemed educators could help explain how the first part, even if it were true, leads to the second?

There absolutely is a difference physically between male and female brains. You really seem to be not well informed.

I did not say that there was a difference in processing, cognitions etc. I stated there was physical differences between male and female brains. I will amend my point slightly though, I used % instead of volume. So I will change that.

Please link up the evidence that shows that this is incorrect:

'Female brains are different in structure to male brains due to the skull size and shape, that leads to different volume of grey matter, and there are also other differences such as female people have more delicate brain fibres. These are not differences seen in male people with transgender identities.'

Just to be very clear again, I did not mention anything to do with male or female cognitive differences. I discussed physical differences.