Yet more disgraceful NHS behaviour against nurses

[Soontobe60]

https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1903719814897586583?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ
When a nurse with years of exemplary service is disciplined by the NHS for referring to a male prisoner brought into hospital in handcuffs as ‘Mister”, despite the same prisoner having to be restrained from attacking her and calling her n**r several times, then its clear the NHS is no longer fit for purpose.

I don't know, I think it's really difficult. Perhaps not.

But that's not the same as a nurse refusing to use pronouns is it?

It's current abuse if you are forcing somebody to participate in a sexual fetish.

This man is a convicted paedophile who pretended to be a teenage girl.

I actually can't believe you have to think about whether a raped women should be told to refer to her rapist as a she is acceptable or not

I have come to realise the using wrong sex pronouns has a high cost. This cost is not always obvious and some do not see it at all, however, it is real. No-one should be forced to use them. You can be polite without using wrong sex pronouns.

"I don't know, I think it's really difficult. Perhaps not.'

How is that difficult?

Perhaps their whole identity is a sexual fetish, perhaps its not. We don't know much about their history beyond their crime, whatever it was they are clearly very disturbed.

If I was this person's nurse I would want to work with them and part of that would be respecting what they wish to be called. It wouldn't really matter to me if their wish for the pronoun was cynical or genuine, there's a task at hand and then I go home and forget about it.

If I felt I couldn't do that for whatever reason I would flag this to my manager and ask to work with a different patient.

The actions of the patient have to be separated from the actions of the nurse. Both actions need to be dealt with accordingly.

There are signs all over this Trust that there is zero tolerance for abuse from.patients. I have seen nursing and admin staff be disproportionately rude to patients and their families in the A&E department when the patients have been perfectly polite. Conduct here is sometimes provocative and if I had seen one of those patients or family members shout back I'd have happily given a witness statement noting poor conduct and provocation. My only surprise is that some of the staff who work at this Trust aren't more often given a punch on the nose.

On the basis of what I know, neither the nurse nor the patient acted well. We know nothing of the consequences faced by the patient.

Because it depends on the circumstances.

If they have been trans for years, I think I would probably say respect their pronouns.

If they had transitioned after the crime, like that case a couple of years ago, then no.

But I know everyone on this board will disagree with that and I hope it doesn't derail the thread.

Exactly!

The nurse was discussing removing a catheter - of she has to use the correct sex.

Ridiculous that a paedophile is treated like the wounded party.

I'm totally for protecting women's spaces, but pronouns cost nothing.

On the contrary, pronouns cost you your self-respect. They require you to lie. In this case, they require you to lie in order to pander to the delusions of a convicted child rapist.

Have you considered the impact this would have on the victim, who is essentially being told that the man who raped her doesn't exist anymore? Why should the rights of the perpetrator to have his chosen pronouns respected trump the right of the victim to have the man who raped her be held accountable? I'm not sure why it's relevent as to when he decided to transition.

Presumably there is a point where you wouldn't be able to respect what they wanted to be called - if for instance they wanted to be called 'master' or they wanted you to pretend that they really were a teenager.

Your solution is to refuse to treat the patient. Given limited resources, I think it's also appropriate for staff to be able to treat patients but set boundaries.

I don't think how the paedophile is being treated like the wounded party. That is irrelevant. What is relevant is the nurse's conduct and whether it broke the appropriate code of conduct. Also, that code of conduct was broken before the abuse and racist comments were used so they cannot be used to mitigate the sanction.

The issue is the nurse's insistence of using her principles to weigh against the expected professional code. As a professional one has to rise above personal principles where the law is concerned.

My limit would be pronouns yes.

I'd only ask to be reallocated if I knew I couldn't work with them, such as if they had assaulted me before. If this nurse knew she couldn't use chosen pronouns it would have been more professional and kinder to ask to work with someone else.

This man PRETENDED TO BE FEMALE SO HE COULD SEXUALLY ABUSE CHILDREN. He doesn't deserve the "respect" of going along with his perverted lies for one microsecond.

Every single person claiming otherwise is a disgusting paedophile apologist.

A prisoner taken to A&E is likely to be a vulnerable adult in the context of safeguarding. They may also have significant mental health problems.

If I were a nurse and if they wanted to be called High Princess of the Universe, I'd probably call them that. And note to the doctor with whom I was discussing their care that the High Princess identified as a woman and had a Penis. It wasn't, in my opinion, the time to make a point or rest upon religious principles.

Labelled a potential risk to the public 🤯

Oh, come on. Would you really?

Yes, I think I would.

In the context of the law the person does. That is the issue.

I am not making excuses for the illegal paedophilia or the racist slur, both of which are criminal acts. The fact they were committed does not make the nurse's conduct correct. Professionally she has to rise above the status of the patient.

Absolutely. Using incorrect pronouns requires emotional labour from the speaker and lends credence to the whole trans ideology. It’s a massive overreach for any employer to demand that from their staff.

RosesandHellebores. Please give us details of the law that says that everyone has to use preferred pronouns, as it is my belief that none exists. It is possible that captured organisations have it written down somewhere, but that is not Law, and will be argued in court (again)

@ramblingnamechanger, I believe it's covered by the Equality Act.

Seems to me that once again there has been a de facto hierarchy of protected characteristics enacted here, despite the Equality Act stipulating no such hierarchy.

The paedophile patient’s asserted trans identity is pitted against the nurse’s religious beliefs.

Given religious belief and trans identity (though only after obtaining a GRC I believe?) are both protected characteristics, why is the trans characteristic being prioritised over the religious one?

Why is an assumed gender identity ALWAYS assumed to trump anyone else’s rights?

Quote the section of the Equality act 2010 that compels speech meaning that people have to use wrong sex pronouns.