Yet more disgraceful NHS behaviour against nurses

[Soontobe60]

https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1903719814897586583?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ
When a nurse with years of exemplary service is disciplined by the NHS for referring to a male prisoner brought into hospital in handcuffs as ‘Mister”, despite the same prisoner having to be restrained from attacking her and calling her n**r several times, then its clear the NHS is no longer fit for purpose.

BonfireLady

The law needs to recognise that there are bad actors, who use their stated belief to oppress others and, in some cases, demand that others accept their belief as fact. Thankfully Christians haven't done that for a while.

Absolutely. We know that it has been ruled in Maya's EAT that correctly sexing a person is WORIADS. In this case, it was vital, because she was seeking advice from a doctor who was not present.

To me, this is a terrible abuse by the hospital and NMC, I don't see how they can hope to win, once they've taken legal advice. The NMC needs to be gutted, root and branch, to get rid of the howling zealots.

Apologies - I took a swipe at the RCN above - which although completely accurate - is not the organisation seeking to sanction Ms Melle - that's the NMC

Edited to add: this was supposed to be a quote reply to @RosesAndHellebores

I took the article's description of the events to mean that she referred to the patient as "a mister", not "Mr X" i.e. a commonly heard colloquial way of saying "a man".

"In the eyes of Epsom and St Helier University Hospitals Trust, the greater sin was that Ms Melle had referred to Patient X – who was born male but now identifies as a woman – as ‘mister’ and ‘he’ during a phone call with a doctor. It was this which prompted Patient X’s aggressive outburst."

However, it's ambiguous and I fully accept that's supposition on my part. If the nurse had said "Mr X", ideally the article would have written it like that.

Either way, the nurse didn't say anything wrong because she was talking about a male patient's clinical care. We have no reason to believe that this particular nurse speaks about women any differently, either colloquially or as Mrs/Miss/Ms X.

It sounds like your concern about the hospital's treatment of women in general is a related side issue to this case. The main issue here is how the nurse has been abused by a patient and then treated in a way that is unlikely to be lawful by the NHS.

Hmm. The patient's conduct was reprehensible. However that doesn't alter the fact that the nurse could have referred to the patient as first name, last name "and they identify as female". That would have been correct and would have conveyed an accurate message. It would not have compromised the nurse's religious beliefs. From what I have read, it seems to me that the nurse was making a point and not doing it particularly respectfully.

This will not be as one sided as is being presented. I say that as an individual who has little time for the ingrained cultures and behaviours at this Trust which are far from optimal and often non co.pliant with the EA (2010).

Hopefully this highlights the ridiculous notion of men pretending to be women. It's disgraceful that the nurse has been treated this way. It makes me embarrassed to work for the NHS.

This will not be as one sided as is being presented.

People have said the same thing about many of the recent tribunal cases until it turned out that the tribunal evidence did show it was as one sided as the claimant initially said

I've worked there (and never would again).

I reckon the ethnicity of the nurse is a significant factor here.

What’s the purpose of signs like this? 🤔 hmmm image didn’t show!

This will not be as one sided as is being presented.

Yes, we're certainly missing the valuable racist paedophile perspective.

So a hospital with a sexist culture punishes a female nurse for failing to kowtow to an aggressive male. I find that unsurprising.

I hear you and I think it's notable that the culture at this Trust discourages a lot of very good staff from applying. The new Sutton Hospital was an opportunity for a seismic shift but it isn't happening now.

My experience of this Trust is that there is a cohort of local staff who are rough handed and rather nasty. I have seen them be rude across a variety of boundaries and experienced it.

I recall significant government disquiet about over 50s leaving the workforce post COVID and the impact on certain sectors.

Tanya de Grunwald talked in her most recent podcast about growing numbers of experienced HR professionals contacting her to say they’d had a gutful of gender ideology’s adverse impact on their work and are planning to exit the profession.

The NHS is built on dedicated nursing staff, the vast majority female, as well as other committed clinicians. It cannot afford to treat women this way. I would not blame nurses with looming retirement age, enough savings or other options for saying “fuck this shit” and walking away. Good luck recruiting to replace them!

Society will soon find out how much it depends on women’s collective unpaid graft if women withdraw their goodwill contributions. Disrespect us at your peril.

He is a paedophile who posed as a teenage girl online to incite under age boys to perform sex acts.

At what point can it be recognised that to force staff to 'respect' his identity is a form of abuse.

This article https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/south-london-nurse-legal-action-nhs-transgender-row-b1218290.html states that she refused to use she/her pronouns, which is a different narrative to the DM one which read to me like she had a slip of the tongue?

An NMC referral is OTT and I'm surprised the Trust are doing this, I can't help but wonder if she has told managers she will continue to refuse to respect patients pronouns. If it is just as reported I'm not surprised she's suing.

FWIW I'm a nurse and I would feel uncomfortable with not respecting pronouns at work. Whatever your views on gender, and however much of a wrong'un the patient may be, starting a caring relationship by refusing to abide with their wishes isn't going to achieve very much.

I hope the patient's abuse was reported to the police.

"The patient's conduct was reprehensible. However that doesn't alter the fact that the nurse could have referred to the patient as first name, last name "and they identify as female"."

Surely it's better to be clear when discussing medical treatment.

In instances like this where genitals are relevant I will say something like, "identifies as a woman, has a penis".

You are having to deal with the penis of a racist convicted paedophlle who has claimed to be a teenage girl. Isn't there a point where there are parts of his identity that don't deserve respect?

I came on to make a "But AcTuaLLy" joke but it seems some are already at that stage of the blame game.

That was quick.

No - my role is to provide care, this is really core to being a HCP. Society can judge, my role is to treat and care for them and that alone. Rapport is important and part of the job.

There are nurses who work in prisons, they will need to work with people who have done awful appalling things and do so with respect and compassion. Hats off to them.

There doesn't seem to be anything to say that she didn't treat him with respect and compassion. He overheard a conversation she had with a doctor, where she clearly needed to identify the patient's sex, and this then called down a racist abusive rant. Where is the respect there?

The NHS is supposed to have a zero tolerance approach to abuse of and discrimination against staff. I don't see how it's possible to separate this man's claims about his identity from the crime of which is convicted, and forcing anyone to participate in that is abuse.

You may draw them in different places to others, but you are allowed to have boundaries.

The patient was awful and I hope they get extra time for this.

If you deliberately, in earshot, opt not to respect someone's pronouns as their nurse I think this is disrespectful. The patient would have had probably 2 escorts and was in chains, it's not like she didn't know they could hear. If it was accidental it's a non issue but it sounds like it wasn't?

I'm totally for protecting women's spaces, but pronouns cost nothing.

Zero tolerance is about abuse to staff, not historic abuse.

It means nothing tbh, abuse to staff is pretty well tolerated by the CPS, but that's another thread.

Would you apply a pronouns cost nothing policy to a rape victim having to refer to her rapist as she or her in court?

Merrymouse · Today 13:42

You are having to deal with the penis of a racist convicted paedophlle who has claimed to be a teenage girl. Isn't there a point where there are parts of his identity that don't deserve respect?

Well, medical staff have to treat patients respectfully, but they don't have to have respect for the person. I don't understand why a racist, misogynistic, physically threatening paedophile gets to have his desires Trump her rights.