Yet more disgraceful NHS behaviour against nurses

[Soontobe60]

https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1903719814897586583?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ
When a nurse with years of exemplary service is disciplined by the NHS for referring to a male prisoner brought into hospital in handcuffs as ‘Mister”, despite the same prisoner having to be restrained from attacking her and calling her n**r several times, then its clear the NHS is no longer fit for purpose.

This the fresh hell that is gender ideology in 2025. We’ve got (presumably) grown adults finding it ‘difficult’ to understand if a woman should call her rapist ‘she’.

Absolutely no one should be forced to use preferred pronouns if they don’t want to. By doing so, you’re indulging in a delusion, going along with a lie. Forcing someone to lie. You can treat someone with respect without doing the above. Someone’s gender dysphoria doesn’t come above my rights to not indulge in something that isn’t true. This extends to pronouns. Especially when it comes to sex offenders!

Just to play devil's advocate, there are situations where it would be appropriate to literally indulge a delusion - if somebody were suffering from dementia, you wouldn't keep reminding them that their spouse had died. If somebody thought they were Napoleon and agreeing with them allowed you to treat their broken arm, that would be appropriate.

However, I also think there are boundaries that must be drawn to facilitate treatment without abusing staff.

Someone suffering from dementia is not delusional, the condition is destroying their memories, so if they've forgotten their spouse is dead it's not delusional, when they continue to refer to them as if they're still alive, it's because the only memories they have left is when they were alive.

Hmm, in an ideal world, perhaps.

But what about in the moment, where there’s not time to say ‘hold on, I need to go and consult with my manager before I finish saying this sentence to you’’? The nurse had to act in the moment and she spoke from her protected religious beliefs. There wasn’t time to consult, plus she was speaking to a doctor about a medical need that was affected by the patient’s actual sex.

Furthermore, are you seriously suggesting she would reasonably be able to feel confident that the NHS management would be sympathetic to listening to her concerns and working out a common sense solution with her? Everything we’ve seen from the NHS shows it to be completely captured and labouring under the delusion that a trans identity trumps everyone else’s rights and all other protected characteristics.

I agree that I was using 'delusional' rather widely. The point is that sometimes there is a reason to just agree with the patient.

Editing to add - and sometimes it is important that the member of staff can set boundaries. Sometimes that may mean setting a boundary and then continuing to treat the patient.

Presumably this will be a case where the defence argument will be that the manifestation of Melle's beliefs went too far and were therefore harassment or discrimination. It's going to end up being a case about pronouns and whether or not they can compel a person's speech.

She could have avoided using the word he pretty easily, 'the patient' can be swapped for he neatly.

If NHS management heard that she was likely to breach their policy if she saw the patient they may not have been understanding, no, but it would have given them an opportunity to put something in place before she had offended a patient. If this is about her religious belief she would also use unwanted pronouns for a patient who quietly transitioned decades ago and has stayed on the right side of the law.

The way she handled this isn't professional and isn't good care.

I'm trying to understand your perspective - do you think that, outside of the context of patient care, this man's pronoun preferences should be respected?

He's a paedophile, which is a paraphilia. Paraphilias tend to cluster. Transvestic fetishism is also a paraphilia.

We dont know for 100% that he's the latter, but if anyone's taking odds I'll put my savings on it.

Using womens pronouns is very likely part of his fetish.

Employers have a duty to protect staff from sexual harassment. Addressing this man as a woman would be participating in his fetish, requiring a woman to do so would be harassment.

It will be interesting to see whether the NHS is willing to argue in court that they will force staff to participate in patients' sexual fetishes.

I don't have much confidence that they will grasp or admit that this is what they are doing, but it's going to be blindingly obvious to most people.

And if they really support a racist, aggressive paedophile over a nurse then that will be illuminating.

I'll answer as I've been asked, but without being deliberately rude I won't respond to lots of replies on this, I know everyone on this board will disagree with me - but the thread is about pronouns in the context of nursing.

My thoughts are that gender dysmorphia is a real phenomenon, for which the kindest treatment is to support social transition. I don't believe you can magically change sex but I do think it makes life less painful for some people. This is obviously in conflict with women's rights, and women shouldn't have to give up spaces to accommodate this.

Generally I think we should respect pronouns, it just feels like courtesy for me.

If someone male bodied is a sex offender they should go to a male prison for safety reasons. I can see the argument about not respecting pronouns in these circumstances but I don't know where I stand on it. I don't think de-transing someone in terms of pronouns should be a part of punishment. I acknowledge that some men will do this cynically, but as its all subjective actually proving this would be difficult. Perhaps the exception to this would be at the trial of someone who committed a crime pre-transition.

It must be asked why the NHS gets so excited about punishing women refusing to mis sex a predatory paedophile. These men really do get special treatment from the NHS while hard working women staff are repeatedly punished.
It's evidently not a bug - it's a feature.

Thank you for replying in good faith.

As you predicted, I don't agree with you, but I do at least have a fuller understanding of your perspective.

FFS. I can't believe people are making this ludicrous argument. The idea that women should be forced to lie about another person's sex, just to protect that person's feelings is both utterly stupid and completely morally wrong.

When you add to the mix the fact that this man had a conviction for sexual offences against children, as well as being an out-and-out racist - seriously, are you having a laugh? How can anyone possibly believe something so contrary to sense and decency?

This is obviously in conflict with women's rights, and women shouldn't have to give up spaces to accommodate this.

Generally I think we should respect pronouns, it just feels like courtesy for me.

I’m struggling with this contradiction. You recognise that trans ideology is in conflict with women’s rights (and there are plenty of examples out there of the harm it’s caused), yet you think women should show respect to said harmful ideology in the form of pronouns. Why?

Why aren’t I, as a sex realist and rejector of this harmful ideology, equally respected by not using ideology supporting pronouns? You can respectfully ask that I recognise a male as a female and use she/her pronouns, but why can’t I respectfully decline this? Why is the respect only going one way?

So, you are a nurse. You know your wishes of your patient and purposefully go against them. How do you think their treatment will proceed?

#BeKind innit; every woman's duty

Agreed.

this story is just wild.
its like some kind of weird satire

i hope she lawyers up and gets Alision Bailey/ JK and friends on board

if there’s a crowd fund I would donate…

Maya Forstater has been doing a bit of research to see who this racist paedophile might be is. Worryingly there seem to be a significant number of men who might fit the bill. If they all require medical treatment NHS staff are going to be very busy pandering to their pronoun demands:

https://x.com/MForstater/status/1903883694567309516

And if the patient wants to be called Napoleon? Or the patient wants to shout and scream and call you "n**r"? Can't you grasp that the nurse also has rights in this situation? That nurses should not be put in a situation where they have to deal with aggressive, violent men who are bigger and stronger than they are?

Seriously, what is wrong with you? I cannot for the life of me fathom what is going on in your mind.

Have you read beyond the headlines in this? The medical needs of the patient come first - not the preferences of the patient. This mistreating occurred during conversation by phone with a doctor about a catheter. The nurse was willing to use the prisoners feminine name but not call them a woman, or refer to them as she/her. I presume this manacled patient would have also wished to be unchained. Should the nurse - in your opinion - have gone against those wishes?

That’s all they are, wishes. They aren’t demands - or shouldn’t be - and the wishes of the nurse, the one doing the treating, should also be respected no?

Okay. Do.you think all men who wear women's clothes have gender dysphoria?

It might be helpful to look into Blanchard's work on what he called homosexual transsexuals and autogynephiles. His theory is that a very tiny minority of men are the former, and a far higher proportion of the male populace are the latter.

One could perhaps try to 'respect pronouns' in case a man falls into the former category.

But in the majority of cases, what we will actually be doing is enabling and engaging in a fetish. Nothing to do with gender dysphoria. Or being kind.

It's not kind to tell a hardworking nurse she has to pander to the fetish of an aggressive, racist sex offender.

Every single Hospital displays signs that staff have the right to work safely and to be respected by colleagues and the public. No one should suffer any abuse at work.
Physical, verbal and racial abuse will not be tolerated and might result in refusal of treatment and possible prosecution.