Ireland

[SuperSleepyBaby]

Reading about the Sandi Peggy case and the various issues that have arisen in Scotland - the rape crisis centre, secret cameras in mixed sex toilets in schools, Isla Bryson, Katies Dolatowski etc - it makes me think, is there just as much issues in Ireland?

i know Barbie Kardashian, the male player on a women’s GAA team. Are there as many issues in Ireland as there is in Scotland, but not really reported on in Ireland?

Yes, I can't imagine it being given too much air time in catholic schools.

Educate Together however would be all for it. 🙄

My kids are in a CoI school, so somewhere in the middle. I was very keen on ET at the time of enrolling, but very glad I dodged that bullet now. My friend's child is in one and briefly had a 'non binary' teacher that the 8 year olds were instructed to use they/them pronouns for. However it was a short lived appointment, though I'm not sure why.

So a female with a GRC must by law be placed in the male prison system

Do we know if that's happened yet? If so, I hope she'd be segregated (like the men's wing of the women's wing of the men's prison 🙄) for her own safety - but it would presumably be complete isolation, given the rarity of transmen offenders, which would be terrible for her mental wellbeing.

Sorry but what the homophobic fuckery hell who signed off on that garbled mess to sell to children and parents?

Sexual Orientation
The term used to describe the gender or genders that someone is attracted to. Note: an individual’s sexual orientation is independent of their gender identity, which is the gender or genders the person is.

they have chosen not to use the word sex and replace it with gender for SEXual Orientations
Gay men just gone.
Nor is homosexual or heterosexual explained.

It would be covered under the AGM so in MSM but well into the middle pages.
I think the Minister gets an invite every year too?

BK got 5½ years 12mths suspended backdated to 2022 for planing to kill/rape his mother the 2024 case was aquital so is due out May this year?

Honestly, I've read that twice and I can't even understand what kind of word twisting they're trying to do. Am I naive to think most students will just eyeroll at this?

Not publically in Ireland that would be a PR nightmare for the Government.
But as there is no way of checking once a woman did not disclose the GRC she would be processed as female.

And complete isolation is torture by Irish Prison standards and POs dont count as social interaction

BelongTo were in my DC’s Catholic ethos school though?
Secondary school, not city based.
Parents were told how lucky we were to be one of the schools selected for their course (though I didn’t believe that).

If only mn had a projectile vomit 'like' option....

https://www.belongto.org/schools-across-ireland-awarded-for-lgbtq-inclusion/
Was your school selected for the BeLongTo quality mark?
Looking at the list here many of the schools seem to be Catholic ethos schools.

They had their toe in the door of my sons' Catholic senior school for quite some time. Missing last year for some reason.

Yes, the quality mark, that was it.
There was no engagement with parents at all, which I didn’t like. Mostly you can see the curriculum online and know what your DC are being taught. This was a bit of a mystery. I have to admit to being a complete wuss wrt challenging it as we were new to the school and I didn’t want to be seen as a bigot 😕 It was a couple of years ago now.

The figure mentioned in the article linked above, that 76% of LGBTQ feel unsafe in school, I always find troublesome too. It’s a very high figure obviously, and very worrying, BUT there don’t seem to be controls? I haven’t seen them at least. By that I mean, what percentage of kids feel unsafe generally? Especially given the very strong links between trans and autism, MH problems etc, it would be interesting (and necessary!) to see the % of, say, autistic kids in school who are not trans but who feel unsafe, as a comparison.
How is unsafe even defined?

I’m not trying to minimise the children’s distress in any way. It’s very real. Just worried that in some cases we may be treating the wrong issues, going wide of the mark. I’m sure I’d agree with some of what BeLonGTo are teaching, no bullying etc, but I very much doubt I’d agree with everything, how gender is presented as fact and so on.

Eye role yes but by second level most have phones and are very aware of how bullying can kick off.
Where prior generations would go dont lable me and noones business but mine the current generation has been trained that they must react to SM with a like or I see you (and arent you the center of my world )

Anyway

Gurrr.....

Drag Queen
A performer, typically one who was assigned male at birth, whose act involves a stylized and exaggerated interpretation of femininity that plays with stereotypical gender themes.

Look mate its a fucking JOB description the word performer? pub? panto? ring any bells

Intersex
A general term used to refer to a variety of conditions involving individuals whose anatomy, chromosomes, and/or hormones do not correspond with the standard definitions of male or female.

Irish mother or baby hospitals have been dealing with this for years and its called DSD. And medically the body regulates hormones so and/or hormones is misinformation but plays into the idea that the T and I are linked.

LGBTQ
An acronym for “lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer.”

No I added... or a plus. ....or A

Trans man (FTM)
A man who was assigned female at birth (AFAB) but identifies as a man. Some trans men make physical changes through hormones or surgery; others do not.

Spliting man from male
Adding in the Doctors luckydip hat female

Man is female and male

Trans woman (MTF)
A woman who was assigned male at birth (AMAB) but identifies as a woman. Some trans women make physical changes through hormones or surgery; others do not.

Spliting woman from female
And adding in the Doctors diping hat male

Woman is male and female

So if one is having heterosexual sex one is having sex with either a man or a woman
Handy way to turn the whole wide world gay 💅

Sexual Orientation
The term used to describe the
• gender or
• genders
that someone is attracted to.
Note: an individual’s sexual orientation is independent of their gender identity, which is the gender or genders the person is.

No sex please we are still Catholic Ireland!

Asexual
The lack of a sexual attraction or desire for other people.

Normal pre-puberty child.
Assumption everybody else is having sex.
Abnormal post-puberty biological failure of process so medical problem or sign of sexual abuse etc.
Or take this as me saying a hell no! I do not ever want to have sex with you!🤷‍♀️

Lesbian
A woman who is emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to
• other women.
Women and non-binary people may use this term to describe themselves.

Well blessed us all and His bike other women 🦧
(well this included ladydick 🙈 )
but O t h e r w o m e n !

Gay
A person who is emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to
• members of the same gender.
Men, women and non-binary people may use this term to describe themselves.

Poor men they got men are people-ed too🫢

Bisexual
A person emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to more than
• one sex,
• gender or
• gender identity
though not necessarily simultaneously, in the same way or to the same degree.

Now remember : an individual’s bisexual orientation is independent of their gender identity, which is the gender or 72(?) genders the person is.
And the sneekly split of sex and gender which the reader will cascade down into the other terms

Pansexual
Describes someone who has the potential for emotional, romantic or sexual attraction to
• people of any gender
though not necessarily simultaneously, in the same way or to the same degree. Sometimes used interchangeably with bisexual.

Sounds like the next level above Asexual but may be open to carkeys in the fishbowl. Anyway moving along ....

Questioning
A term used to describe people who are
• in the process of exploring their
• sexual orientation or
• gender identity.

So that should be 2Q......

Straight
The term used to describe people who are attracted to
• people of the opposite gender.
Interchangeable with the word
• ‘heterosexual’.

No emotionally, romantically or sexually going on.
Not even people-ed🤨

Heteronormativity
The assumption, of individuals and/or institutions, that
• everyone is heterosexual and that
• heterosexuality is superior to all other sexualities.
Heteronormativity also leads us to assume that
• only
• masculine men and
• feminine women are
• straight

So hertero can be bad things

Homophobia
The fear and hatred of or discomfort with
• people who are attracted to
• members of the same sex.

Gender got lost here but phobia got downgraded to discomford. So be on the cheerleading side and put up with that drunk bloke claiming to be a Lesbian.

Transgender
An umbrella term which refers to any person whose
• gender identity and/or
• gender expression differs from the
• sex assigned to them at birth.
This includes
• non-binary identities.
Avoid using this term as a noun: a person is not ‘a trans’; they may be a trans person.

Ladies and Other women there is one for everyone in the audience. Rósín and Collete will be handing them out.

Gender Binary
A system in which gender is constructed into
• two strict categories of
• male or
• female.
Gender identity is expected to align with the
• sex assigned at birth and
• gender expressions and
• roles fit traditional expectations.

Say what? Sexism and Biology had a baby and Sexism ended up as a Single Mother

Gender Dysphoria
Term used to describe the discomfort caused by an incongruence between
• one’s true gender and
• their sex assigned at birth.

True Gender
Word play here "one" is personal while "their" is third party sex unknown (sex from the lucky dip hat)

Non-binary
Various umbrella terms for gender identities that fall outside of the binary of
• man or
• woman
and thus do not conform to traditional gender roles.

Well holey god! what ? do ya men Biology was not the daddy?

Bigender
A gender identity which can be literally translated as ‘two genders’ or ‘double gender’. These two gender identities could be
• male and
• female,
but could also include non-binary identities.

Twins? Are they actual twins or just Irish twins

Cisgender
A person whose gender identity is aligned with their sex assigned at birth.

Thats masculine men and feminine women 🙄

Demigender
A person who wears
• clothing,
• accessories,
• jewellery or
• make-up
not
• traditionally or
• stereotypically
associated with their assigned sex.
People who crossdress may be comfortable with their assigned sex, although some people may go on to identify as transgender.

Poor men they got men are people-ed again 🫢

Gender-Fluid
Gender fluid individuals experience
• different gender identities at different times.
A gender fluid person’s gender identity can be
• multiple genders at once, then switch to
• none at all, or move between
• single gender identities.
Some gender fluid people regularly move between only a
• few specific genders, perhaps
• as few as two.

Not to be confused with its your wan again mode

Genderqueer
Genderqueer people typically reject
• notions
of static categories of gender and
• embrace a fluidity of gender identity and
• often, though not always, sexual orientation. People who identify as “genderqueer” may see themselves as being both
• male and
• female,
neither
• male nor
• female
or as falling completely
• outside these categories.

Notions indeed!

Multigender
Refers to individuals who experience
• more than one gender identity.
It can be used as
• a gender identity in its own right
or can be an umbrella term for
• other identities which fit this description.
Multigender identities include
• bigender (two genders),
• trigender (three genders),
• quadgender (four genders),
• quintgender (five genders),
• polygender (many genders),
• pangender (all genders) and
• genderfluid (variable gender).

So we have sex, gender and a new class called "other identities"

Dear old Father Ted covered some of that & who is old enough to know the crying game

Transitioning
A process through which
• some transgender people begin to
• live as the gender with which they identify,
rather than the
• one assigned to them at birth.
Transition can include
• social,
• physical and/or
• legal changes
such as
• coming out;
• changing one’s gender expression;
• changing one’s name,
• pronoun and
• sex designation on legal documents;
and
• medical intervention via hormones and/or surgeries.

Queer
A term used to express a spectrum of
• identities and
• orientations
that are counter to the mainstream.
Queer is often used as a catch-all to include
• many people,
including those who do not
• identify as exclusively straight
and/or
• folks
who have
• non-binary or
• gender-expansive identities.
This term was previously used as a slur but has been reclaimed by many parts of the LGBTQ movement.

The Stonewall brownie points system.

The schools will be lazyly providing oversight or have TRA's pushing to move away from the RC ethos.
The RC bishops have already said back in 2010ish that they will not be building more primary schools (no need) and it a the Dep of Education problem.
Secondry is mainly if not all lay staff

Intersex
A general term used to refer to a variety of conditions involving individuals whose anatomy, chromosomes, and/or hormones do not correspond with the standard definitions of male or female.
Irish mother or baby hospitals have been dealing with this for years and its called DSD. And medically the body regulates hormones so and/or hormones is misinformation but plays into the idea that the T and I are linked.

@AnSolas
Intersex is indeed an outdated term but I don’t quite understand the issue you have with the mention of hormones in the definition above? How is it misinformation?

Yes, us too - catholic ethos community (mixed) secondary school not in Dublin. All delighted with themselves that they got the BeLonGTo seal of approval 🙄

In my home border community they have no idea that self id is legalised or what it means. There’s a mix of pity and derision of the occasional trans identified male who generally is seen as mentally ill. Very very few visible trans people in the community so far anlthough the sighting of the odd one was unknown 5 years ago. Unfortunately Sinn Fein are big into trans rights and they are the dominant political group by a long way around the border.

I used to support Alliance but no longer. I find myself agreeing with the stance of Unionist politicians on this topic.

The Irish tendency to identify with who they perceive to be the underdog and the unquestioning support of any measures used by these perceived underdogs is concerning and unpleasant. I’m relieved Sinn Fein have less of a hold as you go further south in the Republic.

Woman's rights in Ireland have always been dictated by the special caste of robe wearing men that proclaim a belief system is real. There has always been plenty of women supporting those men both because they believe they are being righteous and out of fear of ostracisation from their local community. This feels no different.

My only hope is that the traditional derision shown to anyone with fancy notions helps override the above.

People with DSD were only really dragged into the debate to "prove" humans had more than 2 sex class. They had medical interventions via surgery and hormones which was an other debating point.
Same with precocious puberty as hormones are used short term to delay (not stop) a childs body from growing sexually mature sexed body too early.

Asexual
The lack of a sexual attraction or desire for other people.
Medical hormone issue as its a basic instinct

individuals whose anatomy, chromosomes, and/or hormones

individuals whose
1) chromosomes create
1 (i) ) anatomy which creates
1 (i) (a) ) hormones

You body [ anatomy ] creates your hormones.
we all have the same basic ones with a within or outside the normal range for each sex

People with DSD may have out of "standard" anatomy of the hormone /sexual reproduction organ bits and also of the general groin (urethra etc) or chest area.
The resulting of sex organs "only" create anatomy, and hormones outside the normal range for their (1of2) sex.

If there was "non-standard" non-sex organs ( just the skin/"cosmetic" ) there would be no hormone issue

There is a whole debate on the use of non- medically necessary surgery to produce a cosmetic change on functional organs while the individual is a child.
Plus there is a logical medical need to attempt to bring hormones within the normal range for the individual's sex as the hormones help the whole body grow.
The pharma (even if used off lable) is been assesses on a need basis using clinical trial and as part of a open debate within a multi-disciplinary approach.

TRA want the cosmetic surgery and the hormones funded on a lifestyle choice not a medical need.

The forced teaming eg attempting to obtain "intersex" campaign funding (for low or no medical intervention) by T dominated organisations (for high and any medical intrrvention) result in a clash of attempting to obtain two opposite outcomes at the same time.

Overall its language usage and how we remember, link ideas, etc

Intersex
A general term used to refer to a variety of
• conditions
involving individuals
• and/or hormones

Trans man (FTM)
A man : make physical changes through
• hormones or
• surgery;
others do not.
Trans woman (MTF)
A woman : make physical changes through
• hormones or
• surgery; others do not.

Demigender
A person who wears
• clothing,
• accessories,
• jewellery or
• make-up
People who crossdress may be comfortable with their assigned sex, although some people may go on to identify as transgender.

Transitioning
Transition can include :
• physical
such as
: medical intervention via
• hormones and/or
• surgeries.

I've said elsewhere that it was noticeable in the last Irish General Election that none of the parties highlighted trans issues. ALL the political parties were full on TWAW when the GRA was passed. In the past they all had sections about gender recognition and trans rights on their websites and election material, but I had to dig to find it this time round; if they had anything about trans issues at all, it tended to be on some PDF from a few years before, that I suspect they had forgotten about!

It looks like the parties got the message - possibly 'on the doorstep', possibly from their backbenchers, definitely from the Referendum on the wording of the Constitution - that while the Marriage Equality referendum showed widespread support for lesbian and gay rights, the trans rights campaign, so strongly pushed by groups like TENI, did not take root in the public mind.

I asked the canvassers that called to my door before the GE about the GRA and did they personally really believe that men could become women? Did they think that most politicians in the Dáil really believe that? and all of them either clearly had never thought about it in detail, or shifted uncomfortably from foot to foot and said they'd pass my concerns along.
Only one - who distressingly is now a government minister🙄parroted the 'we must be inclusive' line.

Having been so gung-ho in favour of #bekind, we must be inclusive, we are a modern secular state, trans rights are human rights, it's difficult for the Supertanker of State to execute the 180 turn that the majority of the electorate seem to want.

I have a big concern about lesbian and gay issues getting mixed up in the public mind with the trans movement, so separating the T from the LGB is very important in the Irish context.

Yep the government keep faffing about rolling GRC's down to under 18's (no court oversight)

Meanwhile Peadar Tóibín:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2023-12-14/34/

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2023/95/

I’m from the border area too and I think you’ve expressed the issues eloquently.

I find myself in the strange position of being an ex-Alliance voter who feels glad that TUV, DUP, and more latterly UUP, are using their powers of saying “No” for the issue of genderism in the public sphere and state policy.

The people in my community are waking up to the implications of, to use their term, “feckin’ woke shite” and they are worried about the effect on their children and their lives. Information is passing by word of mouth and awareness is growing. Whether it’s enough to stop people voting along community lines is altogether another thing but it might reduce voter turnout for parties that embrace these policies.

so bigoted all this, shocking wish for * *☘🌈✂🍆

Not all 🍆obviously

Thanks UtopiaPlanitia

I can’t envision a situation where anyone I know from my home area would vote unionist however worried they were so it would do no more than slightly reduce voter turnout which would still see SF in as the alternatives are as bad as each other on this issue.

My main hope is that areas that have been moving towards Alliance would go back to unionist. Which is a shame I admire Naomi Long in many ways and she knows what a woman is even whilst she’s pretending otherwise. Trouble is I think she thinks the TW are harmless and she’s clearly oblivious to the impact of this ideology on children.

And we need more to wake up to this ‘fecking woke shite’ and go talk to their local SF representatives. Generally around the border they all know their local representatives and more questions at the pub and the GAA matches would make a difference particularly if it’s the fathers asking what they are going to do about it.

Is the Ladies Gaelic Football Association still sticking to its disgraceful decision to let transwomen play?

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/transgender-ladies-gaelic-football

I don't think Camogie has gone there.

Jaysis, the idea of allowing big lumps of men to be tackling women playing gaelic is outrageous enough, could you imagine the horrible damage they could do to women with male strength and a camán? Helmets and shin guards would be feck all use.

Isn't it a coincidence that the party of the sex-offender Donald Trump is seen as the champion of gender-critical rights in the US, and the Democratic Unionist Party, the party of Jeffrey Donaldson who is charged with 18 charges of rape and sexual assault is, the one holding the GC line in NI?

The Alliance party used to be the escape route from the horns of the United Kingdom/United Ireland dilemma, but that's not a solution for the GC voter any more.

Is it there a glimmer of hope in the fact that the four main parties all voted to ban puberty blockers for under 18s? As a result they've been un-invited from several local Pride marches and have been castigated by the Greens who remain true-TRA.