Ireland

[SuperSleepyBaby]

Reading about the Sandi Peggy case and the various issues that have arisen in Scotland - the rape crisis centre, secret cameras in mixed sex toilets in schools, Isla Bryson, Katies Dolatowski etc - it makes me think, is there just as much issues in Ireland?

i know Barbie Kardashian, the male player on a women’s GAA team. Are there as many issues in Ireland as there is in Scotland, but not really reported on in Ireland?

Most of my teacher acquaintances are like 'well I'll be skipping over that nonsense' but there's an odd one who's swallowing it all whole.

It will be interesting to see if they, like Stonewall, were also in receipt of funds from USAID. Do they issue reports on funding received?
There are some teenagers in DS's secondary who are trans/NB. Listening to the chat during soccer runs they are generally regarded as being people who struggle to fit in socially and none of them seem to believe that these are people born in the wrong body.
I have hope that the tide has turned but I can't see the GRA being repealed anytime soon.

Ah yes Stella is GenSpec. I knew she had her own programme.

It was Lydia Foy who brought up the Magdalene Laundries. Foy took the first legal action for trans - presumably transexual- recognition in 1997 and is regarded as the great hero of the fight for trans rights in Ireland.
Does she feel vindicated by how trans rights have improved in Ireland? “It must be like the people in the Magdalene laundry who were treated like less than dirt, blamed for being pregnant and told they had to pretty much atone for the rest of their lives because of an illegitimate baby. I felt like one of those women who had finally got an apology.”
Dr Lydia Foy: ‘I never got an apology actually. It would be nice to get one’ – The Irish Times

• sorry it's paywalled, but it wouldn't do your blood pressure any good anyway!

Apart from the obvious 'most marginalised' competitiveness, Foy is a bit wobbly on the facts about the Magdalene Laundries too. Note 'the people in the Magdalene Laundries.., not women.

Foy is mixing up the Magdalene Laundries with the mother and baby homes.

There were many reasons why women ended up in the Laundries. They were originally set up for prostitutes, hence the name (the residents in the one near where I lived used to be called 'Penitents', because of this history); later some of them were unmarried mothers, but that was only one of many reasons for women being in the Laundries.

And they weren't there 'for the rest of their lives', they were not prisons, women could and did leave if they had somewhere else to go; in some cases, their families took them back, in some cases they got a job; if, tragically, nobody wanted them and they had nowhere else to go, they stayed.

But obviously Foy isn't interested in the true stories of the women - sorry, people - in the Laundries, they are just a useful example of marginalisation to latch on to.

A friend made this exact argument to me a while ago. I have subsequently educated her on the issue, and she no longer thinks it's quite that simple 😄 It's the type of thing that gets trotted out when someone hasn't really thought it through, as evidenced by the fact that your friend couldn't answer your question about which school trans boys should go to.

Well exactly, this was how it was referenced and they then quoted it. She didn't like the challenge as felt informed following the training!

On this issue, too many have confused activism with expertise.

Orgs like Belong To and Teni have presented themselves as 'experts' on this subject, but most of what they are trotting out is unsubstantiated, activist nonsense.

Remember the whole '74 genders' or however many there were?

Who verfied those? Under what criteria? That list read like someone pulled it straight out of their arse. There's no oversight on this whatsoever.

And then people get 'trained' on courses designed by these orgs and it's presented as 'best practice' and people are too disengaged, uncritical, blindsided or intimidated to point out the multiple problems with it.

The givernemt, meanwhile, have no inclination to shut any of these outfits down and probably couldn't even if they wanted to.

It's a shitshow.

In Northern Ireland we have Ferring Pharma giving donations to the Alliance Party and then the party goes flat to the mat in promoting genderism and giving puberty blockers to kids. It’s not hard to see links between lobbying and parties changing policies.

Lydia Foy and Katherine Zappone. I wonder will either of them run for the Áras?

😱Dia idir linn agus an t-olc! the lord between us and all harm!

The very first Pride parade I attended on my return to Ireland after many years of exile was a big deal for me. Guess who the 'marshall' was? Floppy-hatted, floaty-dressed, eye-shadowed and lippy-ed Lidia Foy. Representing lesbian and gay Ireland!
Little did I know that that was a harbinger of what was to come, as the 'T' that Foy represents would soon come to eclipse the LGB that Pride used to be about.

Katherine Zappone is a different kind of disappointment - an actual openly lesbian woman who served in government - a big first in Ireland, and indeed, in most countries at the time. But full-on TWAW and, as a newspaper said at the time 'left a trail of controversies in her wake' when she lost her seat.

I'm notoriously tolerant of politicians - they're only human, like, and social media gives them a fierce and sometimes completely undeserved kicking, especially if they are women - but even I never liked KZ.

I think having either of them as our First Citizen would be awful😦

Is Dustin the Turkey still gigging? I'd prefer him!😃
[sorry for the very specifically Irish popular culture ref there, couldn't resist it!]

very persistent very influential

My images are under review. maybe the MN filters will spare us.

😬I suppose it economises on the mind-bleach to have the two of them in the one picture!
As I said before I'm not usually so very critical of public figures, and if I've 'taken against' these two, and it says a lot about them.

Especially KZ because I'm a lesbian, and having a lesbian government minister was a bit of a buzz at first - yes I know people are going harrumph about identity politics gone mad and it shouldn't matter what people are, but when you belong to a group that isn't usually 'at the top table', it is a bit of a buzz.

Not rose-tinted glasses re their politics, obviously - if anything, you judge them more harshly because it's such a disappointment when a 'pioneer' lets you down😟

https://genspect.org/an-eventful-year-in-ireland/

The above is a good summary of the current state of play in Ireland.

I did not know the school acted against the wishes of the parents

The school had no right to do that and would have a serious problem if the parents did sue because parents and their decisions around their childs school education has Article 41/42 contitutional protection.

So I dont think EB will win in a school setting as the principle in Article 44(?) which led to the sacking of a single mother in the 80's still applies today

THE FAMILY
ARTICLE 41
1 1° The State recognises the Family as the natural primary and fundamental unit group of Society, and as a moral institution possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights, antecedent and superior to all positive law.

2° The State, therefore, guarantees to protect the Family in its constitution and authority, as the necessary basis of social order and as indispensable to the welfare of the Nation and the State.

EDUCATION
ARTICLE 42
1 The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.

2 Parents shall be free to provide this education in their homes or in private schools or in schools recognised or established by the State.

3 1° The State shall not oblige parents in violation of their conscience and lawful preference to send their children to schools established by the State, or to any particular type of school designated by the State.

2° The State shall, however, as guardian of the common good, require in view of actual conditions that the children receive a certain minimum education, moral, intellectual and social.

4 The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation.

RELIGION
ARTICLE 44
1 The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion.

2 1° Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen.

2° The State guarantees not to endow any religion.

3° The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.

4° Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school.

5° Every religious denomination shall have the right to manage its own affairs, own, acquire and administer property, movable and immovable, and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes.

With a GRC a male is 100% legally female
Otherwise the 3 males would not have been sent to a womans prison, the Irish prison system is a 2 single sex system and its unlawful to transfer between the two

Without a GRC he is a male doctor and would be male gender (not sex) under discrimination. Transgender is not recognised legally due to GRA2015

Even for sex offence and as sex and gender are not the same "gender-specific sexual offence" could be a technical problem on a point of law.

But a woman with herown penis exists in Ireland.

GRA2015

Effect of gender recognition certificate generally
18. (1) Where a gender recognition certificate is issued to a person the person’s gender shall from the date of that issue become for all purposes the preferred gender so that if the preferred gender is the male gender the person’s sex becomes that of a man, and if it is the female gender the person’s sex becomes that of a woman.

Gender specific offences

23. (1) Where (apart from this subsection) a relevant gender-specific sexual offence could be committed or attempted only if the gender of the person to whom a gender recognition certificate is issued were not the preferred gender, the fact that the person’s gender has become the preferred gender does not prevent the sexual offence being committed or attempted.

see this article from the Law Society if Ireland:
https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/2019/10-october/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners

At the end it says:
”The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission had no comment on the matter.”

So can a man with a GRC saying he is a woman use workplace change rooms in Ireland- like in the Sandi Peggy case? Can he be excluded?

A woman was awarded 5k from a Dublin barber which refused her service which could only happen with a GRC (so legal male) as physical contact jobs were excluded from discrimination legislation.

The prison officers union have made it clear that male PO's will continue to unlawfull stripsearch the bottom halves of males with GRC's. The Governor and Government are ignoring, probably hoping it will not end in the High Court.
That and changing to mixed sex detention in the childrens units are I believe discussed at the Union agms as unaccepable working conditions.

Just googling trying to understand the law and came across this on the ISPCC website -

Hadn't heard this one before:
“….Multigender
Refers to individuals who experience more than one gender identity. It can be used as a gender identity in its own right or can be an umbrella term for other identities which fit this description. Multigender identities include bigender (two genders), trigender (three genders), quadgender (four genders), quintgender (five genders)…”

Also:
”…It’s important to note that sexual orientation and gender identities are constantly evolving so if you don’t see your personal orientation represented by popular terms, it doesn’t mean you’re alone. It just means there isn’t a description of how you identify yet but there will be in time…”
i wonder what the future ones might be.

https://www.ispcc.ie/a-list-of-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-terms/

Yep 100% GRA
it is 2 separate single sex prison systems.

If one is male or legally male one ends up in a male prison.
So a female with a GRC must by law be placed in the male prison system and imo produce the GRC if remanded to prison.

When the first male produced his GRC the Judge said it was up to the prison to follow the law. He was in the Womans prison in Dublin (1 of 2). Which is an independent purpose built complex and has the mother and baby unit. He was risk assessed but not in isolation (data is published monthly(?)) so the solution was 2 PO with him. He then was moved down to Limerick Womens Prison (wing of the Mens complex). Around then BK was held there pre-trial without bail. He would be very high risk with a history if preplaned ambush attacks on staff and women so likely in isolation.
The other male was a Dublin local to Mountjoy but ended up in Limerick so it looks as if they have created a male wing in the Womans wing

In between that a male, gay/bi with cosmetic alteratons and no GRC was jailed of the midland prisons

It sounds like there's a lot of fight back in the prison service. Not that you'd know that from the MSM.

Only Paddy O'Gorman ever reports on this stuff. And people like The Countess.

Gript is good at pushing back, but I haven't seen a lot from them on this issue.

This caught my eye a while ago.. https://gript.ie/photos-inside-the-dcu-sphe-course-fisting-writing-sex-scenes-porn-terms-examined/

https://gript.ie/teacher-mary-creedon-talks-about-the-influence-of-transgender-ideology-on-the-dcu-sphe-course/

School teacher sharing details of the SPHE course designed for delivery to teenagers.

I see that many people are keen to adopt a left leaning, identifying with the underdog, progressive stance while there remain many things in Ireland that are deeply misogynistic and ingrained. Watching a male TD present the case for gender neutral language in the abortion law was a low point, in my opinion.

There is a fear of seeming to take a positon that could be seen to be too Catholic, hence not enough people willing to speak out against the SPHE content which is highly sexual.

I still see so many examples where women are seen as less than, ingrained in behaviours and attitudes, Ireland has the worst balance of female respresentation in government in Western Europe and 96th in the world.

Its against RC teaching while being LGB was given a pass (Rome ruled 2019ish) so for catholic schools its against their ethos

BelongTo and Teni both will publish financial statements.
From memory there was a cuffel in one over year end accounts - not being done? - auditor not signing off ? - not effective reporting/ controls on expenditure ?

and I think one or both were given money from a US corporate financial services Fund /Thinktank