Ireland

[SuperSleepyBaby]

Reading about the Sandi Peggy case and the various issues that have arisen in Scotland - the rape crisis centre, secret cameras in mixed sex toilets in schools, Isla Bryson, Katies Dolatowski etc - it makes me think, is there just as much issues in Ireland?

i know Barbie Kardashian, the male player on a women’s GAA team. Are there as many issues in Ireland as there is in Scotland, but not really reported on in Ireland?

Unfortunately, yes, I think there is just as much gender woo in Ireland as anywhere else, with many captured by the cult.

There was the same TRA reaction to the Let Women Speak event held in Dublin in 2023 to those in the UK with loud protests attempting to drown out the women & preventing them for speaking.

I suggest reading Dusty Masterson on Substack - very informative on this issue. Also Graham Linehan “glinner” on Twitter/X & Substack, who has been proven correct on so many issues around gender & trans identified men. Also lots of Irish women speaking out such as - the countess, the women exist society, róisin michaux plus many more.

There was a lot of talk and outrage a few years ago about gender neutral toilets going into schools. In our local school there are still designated toilets for male / female and even the younger classes are separate. So 1st year girls have their own toilets, for example, and the 6th year girls have separate ones.
I think there are a few self contained toilets for disabled/ gender neutral.
They need way more toilets than they have though.

I'm Irish and I think Ireland's an interesting case.

The NGO class has been gung ho for this - it suits their perception of themselves as being very 'progressive' and post church. There are some high profile examples of TW - there's a bloke on the board of the NWCI for example 🙄.

I'm sure it's also well represented in student life, the president of Trinity students union is trans for example.

But day to day, not so much, and I think there are cultural reasons for that. It feels very attention seeking for an Irish mentality, it's not the done thing to be making a big song and dance about identity and demanding pronouns. I expect there are people who like the idea of it, but are too mortified to actually pull it off.

If doesn't surprise me that the two most obvious examples, Barbie and the GAA bloke are not native Irish.

Also interesting how prominent Irish voices are in the GC movement. Linehan as you say, but also the formidable Helen Joyce.

Official Ireland was committed to the project once it gave Lydia Foy a new birth certificate in 2013. Pharma is one of our biggest earners and employers.

Paddy O'Gorman's podcast shows that the prison and social services sector is captured, RTE never discusses the issue, Colette Colfer had to fight to be permitted to speak truth within academia, Enoch Burke's spat with his school (doomed to metastasise once it gave his ghastly family yet another chance to play games with the legal system) should not have happened in the first place.

On the ground? I don't know.

In my rural and small town bubble it's about cross-dressing men who obviously have other issues around the place, and worries about young members of the extended circle living abroad. I don't know whether the Kerry CAMHS service scandal had a gender element. I gather some Irish doctors have been leading a strong resistance and were very relieved when the Cass report came out, but again, RTE doesn't report.

Three post nutter.

The national tendency to point and laugh when anyone wears something fancy is in conflict with a deeply conformist mindset among 'respectable Ireland'. Two generations ago they didn't challenge the church on anything, now they condemn the church on everything and back every 'progressive' cause. As I said on another thread recently, critical thinking is hard work, and it's much easier to outsource it.

i think irish people are quite similar to Scottish people though?

@DeanElderberry is right to point out the extremely significant role of the global pharma industry in Ireland and 'official' Ireland's desire to keep them on side. That runs very deep and (for example) one of our most prominent ministers in government is married to a director in AbbVie, which I believe makes puberty blockers.

Having said that, our own medical system was not developed enough to actually 'treat' children for gender issues, so anyone who was in the system was referred to the Tavistock (though no longer) or some clinic in Belgium. So not many kids actually being treated (thank god).

Another example of it being promoted strongly in theory but not so much on the ground.

didn't some trans activist compare their suffering to that of the women and girls in the Magdelen (sp?) laundries the other day?

In some ways. But the loony left did not get the same foothold in politics in Ireland as it did in Scotland. Ireland has been ruled by a centre/centre left party for decades. The Greens were a minor partner in the last coalition, but didn't have the same heft as the SNP / Greens in Scotland.

The loony left is very well represented in NGO land though, to be fair, which is influential, but not actual government.

Yes. Absolutely disgusting. That only happened the other day though, didn't it?

The Enoch Burke case is also interesting, as it seems the full story on this was not really properly covered.

Leaving aside Enoch himself, who is a frustrating figure, the parents of the child in question did not actually know it was their child at the heart of it all until their child's name came out in court.

They stressed that it was not their wish that the child be known as different pronouns and a previous meeting in the school had not been about this issue. Very briefly, there was talk of them suing the school - though this story was buried very quickly.

My friend's sister had kids in the same school and this lines up with what she was saying - on the ground, parents were confused by the whole case as there was no child in the school known to be trans or non binary.

So god knows what actually went down, but it seems like the principal and potentially others were not exactly acting in good faith here either.

What does the law say in Ireland about changing rooms - if a Sandi Peggy case arose in Ireland?

Good question. I don't know.

We have self ID, so no need even for GRCs to be considered 'legally female' 🙄.

But I don't know if there's any additional legislation that would uphold sex based rights. Probably not.

But on the ground again, I suspect, fewer people willing to push their 'trans rights' in that way. And also, if it did occur, less desire to vilify those protesting. If a Sandi Peggy was in that position in Ireland I expect there would be more of an attempt to find a solution that worked for her too.

I might be completely wrong in that, but that's just my hunch.

I’m an Irish scientist and I really think the role of the pharma industry in all this is overstated. I’ve seen it on other threads too. I think people let their imaginations run away with them sometimes tbh and dream up conspiracies where they don’t exist.

Yes, obviously the government wants to encourage Irish industry and pharma is a big one here in Ireland. But I know loads of scientists, many working in the pharmaceutical industry, and have never seen or heard a hint of a suggestion that Ireland’s position on gender issues is in any way related to manufacturing here.

I'd argue the Irish prison service isn't captured, it's trapped between self ID law and risk assessments. There was an Amansty prison rights report a while back criticising some prisoners in 23hr isolation in the woman's prisons. We can guess who they were.
I'm involved in DC school and clubs and am aware of exactly 2 trans Id kids, both who have other issues going on. Everyone is polite enough to their faces, but we'll see how university level goes.

Look, who knows. The only thing I'd say is that lobbying happens at the highest levels and there may not be that much visibility of that on the ground. Helen McEntee's connections with AbbVie are extremely cosy.

I doubt pharma had any impact on Ireland passing the GRA, but there may be pressure now to hold the line. Or maybe not? 🤷‍♀️

You mean, apart from the completely different legal, political and religious systems?

Agree about the prisoner service. I don't think those on the coal face are happy at all. But stuck.

@TheKeatingFive Yes, but you see now, when challenged, you’re saying maybe not, who knows and so on. Earlier this morning you insinuated quite a bit more than ‘who knows’.
I don’t think that’s okay tbh.

I suspect it does have a big impact. You suspect it doesn't. So what, we disagree? I'm not saying my opinion is definitive, I'm telling you what I think.

You know about the pharma industry, I know a bit about political lobbying. We have different perspectives. 🤷‍♀️

i meant the personalities of Irish and Scottish people - as it was said above that Irish people are less likely to be visibly pushing pronouns or willing to stand out.

I think Irish people behave pretty much the same as Scottish people … so just wondering why there seems to be more issues highlighted in Scotland than Ireland. Is it lack of reporting in Ireland or something else?

Sure, that’s fine. I just think you should be careful to make it clear that these ideas are your own suspicions, not fact. That you have no evidence of any wrongdoing at all.

You’ve named people in your posts.
It’s easy to start rumours online and it’s really not fair.

It was me who made the point about personalities and I think while they're similar, there is more sense of community conformity in Ireland.

I also think the wider political landscape is important. My brother lives in Scotland and his partner is very strongly SNP and seems to toe the party line on every single point. The parties taking a similar view in Ireland are smaller.

I haven't said anyone is involved in 'wrongdoing'. it's just how politics works.

And the link between McEntee and AbbVie is very well known in Ireland. No one is hiding it.