NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the liverstreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but I wouldn't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12

BBC discussing this on Radio 4 the world tonight. 10:30. Some handmaiden reporting on this. It’s not that complicated BBC. Men shouldn’t be in women’s changing rooms. Getting a bit more into it now but a lot of words to describe a situation in a way that is very confusing when it is basically institutional abuse of women.

Everybody is barred except for journalists going forward, unless they manage to fix the problems.

Boo. Just when I get days off.
Oh well, perhaps they will sort things with any luck.

Thanks @ArabellaScott

"Can we have Brian Blessed as Pete the Plumber?"

Genius casting suggestion. 👌

I haven't kept up with all the film suggestions but the list currently stands at:

Dr Upton - David Tennant, Karla Sofia Gascon, Dana International

Sandie Peggie (or other NHS staff yet to be introduced): Sharon Small, Anne Marie Duff, Ashley Jensen, Claire Grogan, Sarah Lancashire, Laura Main, Siobhan Redmond, Daniela Nardini

Pete the Plumber - Brian Blessed (although he is neither bald nor burly)

Naomi Cunningham - Maxine Peake, Glenn Close, Meryl Streep

Jane Russell - Imelda Staunton

Judge - Charles Dance

Any others?

.

Just noticed he's got the word "peak" on his fleece!

His legal fees are covered by NHS Fife. There's nothing snide in pointing out that Sandie Peggie is a working class woman and Upton, by his own admission, is a middle-class, privileged man. Disagree by all means and explain your thinking, but it's really not on to tell people their views aren't acceptable.

I've mentally cast Brad William Henke as Pete.

He played Piscatella in Orange is The New Black.

There is no truth in the rumour that Jeremy Vine is paying Sandie Peggie's legal fees.

I'd just done some screenshots of some potentially interesting minutes and a Unison connection to the tribunal when I remembered we can't reliably upload photographs.

Comment is in response to this Telegraph piece about Unison: Trade union accused of betraying women by pushing trans-rights agenda
Unison to debate motion that asserts that ‘trans women are women’ at same time as a nurse battles NHS over single-sex spaces
https://archive.is/Uh5yr

The other issue here is attempts within Unison to shut down discussions of this issue. Women who are concerned that our rights are under threat are being silenced, forced to whisper in the shadows."

This thread is about a Unison union official and some interesting minutes from March 2024 that refer to a "staff-on-staff" hate crime incident in the women's changing room (it's worth looking at the threads to see the image snippets of the minutes that I can't reproduce):

NHS Fife's Unison union rep - Andrew Verrecchia, also Fife Cllr (ScotLab) - sits on the acute services sub committee of the Staff Governance Committee. Came across the name while meandering through their committee back catalogue at the weekend
Why do I suspect he's been useless.

That (above) is a snip from the minutes of an internal 15/2/24 meeting where monthly staff health &safety stats were flagged (standing item). It noted that 1 hate crime - female on female - had been logged (below). AV's remark is a comment on this. Link: https://www.nhsfife.org/media/4kulbqyp/staff-govenance-comittee-final-boardbook-final-20240513.pdf

https://x.com/cadenzasmith/status/1888876118427451789

In fairness, socialdilemmawhattodo, neither is for legal fees, as both sides seem to have those covered.

Both are gestures of support to the participants.

In the case of SP, those gestures take the form of donations to the Scottish Society for Rheumatology in memory of SP's very recently-deceased father. Currently £10,925.

In the case of DrU, they take the form of donations for treats for DrU.

They do seem to emanate from two different mindsets.

Definitely get there early. They will be doing bag searches and security checks and it can take forever, especially if other hearings taking place.

Let's be honest his legal fees and costs are being paid ultimately by the UK taxpayer. To the extent costs are pooled under CNORIS or come out of another part of Fife NHS budget people living in Fife will experience a reduced level of NHS care to support his unhinged fantasies.

Frances Barber is a proper terf, and not afraid to speak up on twiX.
I see no reason why, in suitable wig and contact lenses, she wouldn't make a very good NC.
And she's played a barrister before.

I suggested Fiona Shaw for NC.

She’s still top of my list, despite the competition…

@RethinkingLife Well my goodness that is a bit of a headline disclosure well done

Shauna MacDonald for a cast member!

WN advised there were 16 violence and aggression (staff) incidents reported in December 2023/January 2024, 128 incidents since April 2023. There were 8 no harm, 7 minor harm, 1 moderate harm incidents. 2 incidents were reported to the police, 1 in AU1 and 1 in Ward 42. 1 incident has been considered a hate crime, a protected characteristic incident in the female changing area and 1 sexual harassment incident in theatre recovery.
…
AV advised he was concerned to hear about the hate crime incident within the female changing area and asked if this was a staff-onstaff incident. WN confirmed it was a staff-on-staff incident and this incident is being dealt with internally. * *

If you look at pg 308 for whole document: https://www.nhsfife.org/media/4kulbqyp/staff-govenance-comittee-final-boardbook-final-20240513.pdf

Interesting coincidence of dates. And I wonder if it gives a clue as to the contents of the "intemperate" email.

I always admire her on twiX for boldly speaking out, especially given the profession she's in

That is a cracker - the H&S minutes which would have more detail aren't online. But I found this page about that reporting:
https://www.nhsfife.org/about-us/policies-and-procedures/general-policies/adverse-events/

"NHS Fife has a duty of care to all employees following an adverse event which has occurred during the course of their duties....

1.1.8 Positive safety culture
Avoidance, prevention and mitigation of risks are part of the organisation’s approach and attitude to all its activities and are recognised at all levels of the organisation. Decisions relating to the management of adverse events are risk based, informed and transparent to allow appropriate level of scrutiny."

Why bother putting this policy on the website when it means nothing?
It is embarrassing - and dangerous

But who will play the one, the only, the indispensable -

I give you, Ladies and Ladies, your own, your very own Threadmeister ....
N A U T I C A N T!

<crowd cheering and chanting>
'N A U T -I- C A N T ! N A U T- I- C A N T! N A U T- I -C A N T!'

Kate Winslet? Saoirse Ronan? Jodie Foster? Lupita Nyong'o?

I wonder if she would be prepared to play JR?
(I'm thinking she is doing a sterling job - every time she interrupts she signposts when something good is going to happen)

What's so frustrating about this is that Sandie has so much support from nurses locally but no one can be seen to be against their employer so unable to publicly support.

So frustrating that it’s journalist access only. BBC Scotland don’t even cover it tonight. Apparently releasing wild pigs into the Scottish Highlands was more important. Trusting it to journalists isn’t open justice.

How do you know this?