NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

Placemarking. And needing to catch up

So he knows precisely when SP didn't make eye contact with him (as NC said, all the trivial stuff) but seems curiously vague about the incident regarding patient safety 🤔

let's hope the tech issues are sorted by 1320 - FWIW I will try and log in about 1305, just hoping really

In keeping with his arrogant presentation, DU made his own determination as to which of his emails from and to the BMA should or shouldn't be disclosed.

I wonder if he will now take to heart how serious the consequences will be for him if he withholds any emails following yet another determination that he must disclose them all

Yes - I had misunderstood sorry

I hope his big girl pants are sturdy; I'd be shitting myself.

So we've more or less established
The AWOL child incidents - nurse's evidence is different to his

The October-December incident - detail so vague, he can't even narrow down the date

The investigation that didn't happen, did happen

Yet again failed to disclose key docs, despite having both wrists slapped by Judge

Does DU using his personal email to respond to the BMA now open those up for further searches as part of disclosure order? NHS Fife have had their IT team on OT all weekend looking for emails NC specified, while he knows he sent a reply on his personal email & not any NHS one. JR is his counsel too - did she not ask him whether he had anything else not disclosed? It sounds like they are aware of the emails & content but failed to disclose anyway? Can't work out who is responsible here for still withholding relevant evidence.

Let's see him flutter his eyelashes out of this

I don't understand . DU and JR. must have known these emails were going to be asked for?!? Are they incompetent or did they assume NC was?

Looking forward to seeing NHS Fife try to talk their way out of this mess!

If documents are said to exist they are disclosed, if Theodore had provided those documents they would have been disclosed for inspection.

He'll be shitting his big girl trans pants over lunch

I can't log in this afternoon as I've got other plans, placemarking to catch up on here later.

Good luck to all those trying to get in, may the odds be ever in your favour.

No probs. He can just go and change them in the ladies toilet.

Not only is DU recollection of the AWOL patient different to SP's, it would seem that Rihanna's (not sure if this is dr or nurse) recollection is more in keeping with SP's...

Trying to log in for the first time. Been in the 'waiting room' for half an hour or so- is that normal?

They may have explained properly but it's clear he interprets EVERYTHING in his own very speshul way.

It's weird but the new screen is making my phone overheat.

when a senior union employee I liked and trusted, with a reputation on equal pay told me (after I assumed he was pro womens rights) that trans people had experienced discrimination similar to me as a multi disabled person, I really felt like he had delivered a gut punch. My opinion of this union official has been damaged and I have sinced left that union and I'm no longer a rep.

Surely any normal person would disclose the emails and leave it to lawyers to consider if they were legally privileged?

Me too. DU is a zealot but presumably NHS Fife will be more interested in protecting themselves rather than protecting him.

Yes I think the case could shift gear markedly

Yes - the topic being discussed was whether TRAs beliefs would be deemed WORIADs. We've discussed on other threads. Criteria are

1. The belief must be genuinely held.
2. It must be a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information available.
3. It must be a belief as to a weighty and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour.
4. It must attain a certain level of cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance.
5. It must be worthy of respect in a democratic society, be not incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others.

I've bolded a couple of bits. A belief in gender identity is likely to qualify as WORIADS - but Dr U's beliefs might be considered too extreme to qualify.

Nothing's normal about today but loads of us like you have been waiting ages. I'm soon going to be coming up on the hour so will log out and retry rather than get automatically logged out when I'm not expecting it.

Can you hear "waiting for the host to join". If you can you are in the right place but due to recent events you might have a long wait.