NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

Oh no

I can just see a much smaller view of the courtroom and then a lot of icons of crossed-out cameras. No on-screen indication of how many in the lobby. Sorry.

A few people in chat saying they can't hear anything.
…..and they’ve broken for lunch!

Michael Foran twitter/x:
'JR agrees that it could but not well-being
NC not following, why wellbeing is relevant. Q is whether DU provided docs to BMA
J answer was I believe so
NC but have not been produced
DU this was from personal account not work email. Possible I forgot to check

J I think claimant would like to see these emails. Will ask you to provide this if possible to do so over lunch.
NC since I'm asking about this now can we break earlier for lunch?
J yes - 1.20 restart'

Breaking early for lunch so NC can see those pesky missing emails. back at 1.20pm (chinny reckon)

Thanks for the updates. I'm still in the waiting room 🙄

JR agrees that it could but not well-being NC not following, why wellbeing is relevant. Q is whether DU provided docs to BMA J answer was I believe so NC but have not been produced DU this was from personal account not work email. Possible I forgot to check

Back in just in time for the lunch break I think

JR frantically jumping in to prevent something being disclosed?

Thanks - I'll stay here waiting for the conference host to join.

I'm gutted I'm missing this bit - is he squirming yet? Blinking, foot tapping?

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Conversation

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
18m

NC we will come back to resus but now Qs on order in which you told story. You spoke to EP immediately after incident, said in chief you wrote up notes on phone in care before leaving. DU yes

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
17m

NC you emailed KS on Xmas morning when you got home NC yes NC takes to new document produced only last week

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
16m

NC this is your email on 26 Dec to BMA telling your story DU correct NC other doc produced very late we see you emailing Antony Wilson on 27th thanking for advice- is that advice given on phone DU if not email then would be on phone

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
15m

NC when have phonically with advisors at BMA there will be some record, either recording or notes from BMA DU you'd have to ask BMA NC they would give this if you asked DU never had to ask for it so don't know

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
14m

NC new page we see header lines of email from jan 3 - draft of formal complaint sent to BMA DU yes NC new page we see date on ED email to you she's saying to commence investigation would be good to have initial incident at Xmas

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
13m

NC she knows something else you want to talk about but chasing you of account from Xmas eve DU yes NC clear at this point that she's conducting investigation DU can't speak to that NC clear to you she was investigation DU clear yo me that she was asking for statement

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
12m

NC but read the email DU oh yes she does say she is investigating - I missed this, apologies NC so when your counsel told the Tribunal last week that ED was NOT investigator that wasn't right was it? whoever gave her those instructions wasn't telling the truth

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
11m

DU I can't speak to that but looks like it NC so ED has been chasing you on Jan 15 for account of what happened on Xmas eve - [sorting documents]

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
9m

NC new doc - this is KS to DU saying Ester has taken lead on investigating the incident. But on 15 Jan, we see ED chasing you for written account DU that's correct

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
8m

NC we see later same day RR sending version of Formal Complaint back to you with comments DU yes NC all material only produced last week? DU that's when I was asked to disclose it

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
6m

NC if we go back to covering email for that annotated copy of formal complaint, and in same email he asks you for 3 things - all emails and attachments, copy of relevant policy, anything else you feel relevant DU sure NC did you send him those? DU I believe so

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
5m

NC when did you send those? DU I'd have to check NC we have not received this DU I was not asked to disclose this - may have misunderstood NC you're saying there are more emails between you and BMA relating to these matters you have not produced?

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
4m

JR No not answer - emails about wellbeing not been disclosed J: let's look at the order. Must be any docs "relating to investigations" JR: but emails about well-being don't fall into category of interactions with SP J do you say that email to and from BMA fall within order?

Dr Michael Foran

@michaelpforan
·
2m

NC yes quite clear that whole correspondence with BMA is relating to the investigation JR That cannot be right - Order is relating to internal investigation - emails about wellbeing are not relating to internal investigation J if there was an email from DU to RR sending

From a different e-mail? Claiming not covered by the order?

Is that Michael Foran on camera chatting to NC?

But surely they needed to have disclosed their email existence to the ET, but with the privileged note for contents not to be disclosed.

Yes, but because of time constraints it was agreed there was no point.

Ordering the BMA to produce all communications would have resulted in the hearing being adjourned.

@HalfWomanHalfHobnob yes

I'm back in. Just in time for lunch by the looks of it. 😂

J I think claimant would like to see these emails. Will ask you to provide this if possible to do so over lunch. NC since I'm asking about this now can we break earlier for lunch? J yes - 1.20 restart

i'm in! yay! but now there's a weird split screen - one normal the other blank
sound is good
they've just broken up for dejeuner

I'd just like to register that whoever is working tech in the court may well be letting a small number through now online - but there's still a phone line with me waiting!!!! That's less problematic surely? Just switch the sound on please 🙏

J I think claimant would like to see these emails. Will ask you to provide this if possible to do so over lunch. NC since I'm asking about this now can we break earlier for lunch? J yes - 1.20 restart

Is that his wife that he left behind?

Yes they would. It is deliberate non disclosure. Du perfectly understands, just being obstructive.

Thank you. I could only start to follow live from Friday.

In just in time to see an empty court room. Oh well, lunch it is, then.

I've got no sound :( do I have to exit and join the queue again?

Otherwise, am I right in thinking that DU has got detailed notes on the changing room use of female nurses, but doesn't have detailed notes for incidents when he claims patient care was compromised?

Does it not occur to him that this is perhaps a bit weird?

Hopefully I'm let back in before 1310