NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

I'm in, with sound

Michael Foran twitter/x:
'NC new doc - this is KS to DU saying Ester has taken lead on investigating the incident. But on 15 Jan, we see ED chasing you for written account
DU that's correct

NC we see later same day RR sending version of Formal Complaint back to you with comments
DU yes
NC all material only produced last week?
DU that's when I was asked to disclose it'

I'm in!

What the hell was he playing at there? Interrupting to ask about someone in the room?!

In no sound. : (

Oh interesting! Still no sound here. I wonder if there are now two calls running concurrently?

With reference to who was on shift when - there is a rota. You go to work when the rota says you do. A medical rota would typically cover everyone at your grade and dept (and any dept you cross cover) - so Dr U and all his junior Dr colleagues in ED have a rota (probably electronic, could be an excel doc) saying which shift they are on. Nurses shifts are coordinated in advance with other nurses of the same responsibility level/dept - I'm not a nurse so don't know how that is usually communicated, but clearly it is recorded and I would have thought it would be possible to check back which shifts SP & U worked at the same time.
Also possible to check individual patient records but only if both parties documented something- if a nurse does obs on my request I could document them without stating which nurse took them - and a patient in ED could easily be seen by a team of Drs with only 1 or 2 doing any documenting.

ED wait times are horrific nationwide and loads of people leave without being seen. Easy to check that though if you have patient details - if they checked in at the ED desk there will be a discharge sheet even if it just says 'left before seen by staff' and what time they checked in and left.

NC if we go back to covering email for that annotated copy of formal complaint, and in same email he asks you for 3 things - all emails and attachments, copy of relevant policy, anything else you feel relevant DU sure NC did you send him those? DU I believe so

I'm in!

Ah there it is! I can hear!

I think the EAT ruled that gender critical beliefs are WORIADS, but Maya accepted that gender identity beliefs could also be WORIADS, so there hasn't been a ruling on this?

I'm in with sound.

Sound and video!!

Well, if this case doesn't prompt employers (medical or otherwise) to think twice about employing trans people, I don't know what will. Which is entirely unfair on non-litigious, thick-skinned, resilient trans people and precisely what the EA2010 was supposed to prevent.

There are more emails!

Can hear again

DU just said that there are more emails not disclosed. JR butted in saying that's not what DU said.

I thought the document disclosure order was made in early January for both NHSfife and DU? ie not mid -feb

Michael Foran twitter/x:
'NC if we go back to covering email for that annotated copy of formal complaint, and in same email he asks you for 3 things - all emails and attachments, copy of relevant policy, anything else you feel relevant
DU sure
NC did you send him those?
DU I believe so

NC when did you send those?
DU I'd have to check
NC we have not received this
DU I was not asked to disclose this - may have misunderstood
NC you're saying there are more emails between you and BMA relating to these matters you have not produced?'

@socialdilemmawhattodo They were

This looks like more hasn't been released from the recent disclosure of she's asking him did he send what was asked of him.

🤨

Looks like he hasn't disclosed emails with BMA regarding his wellbeing as 'not relevant'.

Thanks again @nauticant

I have vision but no sound.

This doesn't look good for Dr Upton. At all.

Surely this has to count against him? He's remarkably 'clever' but unable to comply with simple, multiple requests?

DU sure NC did you send him those? DU I believe so

( his MO is to imply everything in life is purely a matter of personal perception, rather than a yes/no reality)