NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

Exactly. And hurty feels that were just so hurty that he was up drafting emails about colleagues at 3 am on Christmas day FFS.

Most people up at that time are looking for Santa.

They are currently adjourned

We note that Upton didn't say 'I don't understand what immersive cosplay is'!! So when it suits him, he suddenly regains his understanding of the english language.
The man's a thespian.

Indeed, but if the tribunal has to make a ruling on the law (as opposed to a ruling on the facts), it is likely to be open to the losing side to appeal on the basis that the tribunal got the law wrong. So if the tribunal makes a decision on whether transwomen are allowed in single sex spaces, that is likely to be appealable whichever way they decide.

If there's an appeal, which court would it go to?

It helps everyone who is trying to remotely view know what the situation is.

I'm here because it's nice to 'chat' with others that are also remotely viewing.

If you want a run down of what is being said at the hearing, TT is the best place to go.

I wonder if, at a later date, the BMA could be asked to disclose the number of email exchanges between the 2 parties over the specified period and/or for the exchanges to be disclosed.

Presumably, JR will advise DU not to withhold and emails and to disclose if he deleted any that he sent or received.

When I contacted about the invalid pin issue, I just replied to the email that contained the original joining instructions.

Was that the right one, or is there another?

Employment Appeal Tribunal. Sort of on a par with the High Court.

It will be trickier to read facial expresssions will have to rely on tone of voice instead.

While booted out and without pin, I thought I'd check out Sandie's dad's memorial page for donations. From £420 to nearly £11k in a week - a tear in my eye reading the notes people have left. If you haven't donated the link is here: https://alexander-herschell-bell.muchloved.com/Fundraising/Donations

And then we get comparisions with refusal to have a black doctor as if its remotely the same.

Yes, that was a particularly low point in a day that's not short of low points.

Well it's taking a long while to read emails that are 'forgettable'.

There is still plenty of interesting commentary on the case, from MNers with relevant legal experience or NHS experience or other sources of insight. The thread title makes clear the thread is about the case, not about IT problems.

EAT Employment Appeal Tribunal, and then possibly Court of Appeal - got the T-Shirt!

People are here to discuss the case, and for some that might include trying to access it.

Good point Datun...

But we're mostly not here for a chat. We're here to follow the case.

I've not bothered trying to go in and view, myself, because it is easier if just a few do that....Since more and more people have been trying to log in - since yesterday - the list of problems is growing and all access was lost earlier. It may well be the system's fault - but the system is clearly not coping with the demands made upon it.

If people want to know how it works there are literally hundreds of other posts asking that same question throughout the thread -without multiples more every few minutes.

Wow, thank you.
Dr Upton has been able to change both his sex and his GMC number on the GMC register.

Well I certainly didn't know that you could leave an old GMC number behind! I've had colleagues that have retired, relinquished GMC registration and still had the GMC after them to investigate something.

Are there any other circumstances in which you can request a new GMC number?

Or is this another case of VERY SPECIALness?

On the face of it, it seems like a potential safeguarding risk. Particularly if the doctor does not disclose their previous name.

Here’s the un-paywalled version:

archive.is/wYJXS

Who knows. She may not even have received them yet.

I think I'm going to give up with this today and just keep tabs on the thread later. I can't see how questioning of DU can conclude today. There will surely be additional questions on top of the ones NC was going to ask and given the delays today, surely J will see it reasonable to allow an extension into tomorrow morning. I hope Sandie wins this and that DU is billed accordingly for wasting everyone's time. The deception of this individual is frightening.

It's a side point but doesn't Sandie's dad have a lovely, kind face

Just musing aloud here, but the GMC registration says Dr Elisabeth Ruth Annikki Upton graduated from Dundee University with a certain degree on a certain date.

That isn’t true, though. Theodore Benedict Onni Upton did. I can't be the only one whose instincts just scream wrong about all this obfuscation.

Seconded. I also now have a tiny square view.