NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

Elisabeth

OK,now that there have been approx 200 posts reporting on invalid PINs , and hundreds more reporting other access problems can you all just STOP updating us on each one??
We're reading the thread to hear about the case, not about the video link

Exactly.

Thus potentially demonstrating something of a vendetta / controlling behaviour on the part of Upton which would completely undermine the creditibility of Upton as a reliable source of information about Sandie's behaviour.

It turns the idea that Sandie was the one harassing, on its head - it starts to look like Upton was seeking to try and punish Sandie at all costs.

Keep in mind that Upton, has explicitly said that nothing Sandie could do would be right and has said in various ways that nothing short of full compliance of indulging the full immersive cosplay and use of pronouns would be acceptable in their view.

NC has explicitly identified it as coercive.

Omission of potential evidence with this background isn't a good look.

None of this has been done by Sandie it might be added. All these actions were completely done by the free will and admission of Upton. These are unforced actions.

Its not a good look when the actual case is supposed to be about Sandie harassing Upton, not the other way round.

It starts to look incredibly vindicative.

For those who know NHS rules about email use, does it include comms with your union or potentially solicitor if it is regarding a personal but work or employer related matter? I work in private sector and I know if I wanted to get some advice I wouldn’t have used my work system.

Seconded

Assume this is him. www.gmc-uk.org/registrants/8038543

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-arent-scotlands-politicians-standing-up-for-sandie-peggie/

Then hold your nose and get on Twitter or Nitter and use Tribunal Tweets. No one here is tasked with or offering a real-time account of what's going on.

I assumed that it is her fault because she didn't explain that 'everything' means 'everything' and that Dr Upton isn't the one deciding what words mean based on what he deems to be in his best interests.

Are you in with normal view or do you have numerous blacked out cameras too? I can barely see the room it's so small now.

Sure - but there will be faults won't there? The judge mentioning "victim" etc.

me too

I suspect that this is exactly what he did. He likely considered the possibility that the NHS would have the oversight to access his work emails so deliberately sought to avoid that.

Actually, I think I'm misremembering, she said it's about his well-being, and therefore private?

either way there were about his well-being. And didn't need to be disclosed for reasons.

Same view as you.

This is what it used to look like 'in the olden days'

Very disappointed I can't watch. I hope they find a way to manage cases with a lot of public interest like this one.

Obviously getting too rowdy all in the one room 😄

The technical issues posts are useful for many of us, so we know the problem isn't at our end. Easy to scroll by them for those who aren't interested.

Or possibly DU exerting dominance by deciding on behalf of the court which e-mails are relevant.
Imagine that!

That kind of thing is trivial compared to a real substantial ground of appeal that won't get the application immediately thrown out.

Why are people here, if not for updates and transcripts?

If the court system keeps getting overwhelmed then there'll be nothing here but people asking how to access and how to turn their microphone off etc And what is the point of that?

Think of the women working with Mr X on 31st Dec. Who know and understand he is male.

Then on 1st Jan, he can change his GMC number, have no legal status and women working with him are supposed to forget their own feelings and change in front of a colleague who has suddenly decided they are female. And if they don't just accept it, they might face disciplinary proceedings for avoiding their colleague so they don't get changed at the same time.

The fact there isn't even a managed process here and that women suddenly are faced with ignoring what they know to be true and are silenced is beyond crazy.

And then we get comparisions with refusal to have a black doctor as if its remotely the same.

I second this. I am not confidently with technology and yesterday was only the first time I had watched the ET via video link, so still get the hang of things

I am writing a note on my phone. "Unusual behaviour by GU".

Maybe that's the T-shirt?

Re the GMC changing 'gender' of doctors on the register, check out RebeccaSaysNo on twitter/x. Sorry, can't link right now.