NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

Well exactly. JR said they were about well-being and not relevant, now she says she hadn't made it clear to Upton to disclose, but Upton said he forgot about them.

Surely it's not up to JR to decide if they are relevant. If disclosure was ordered then they needed to be disclosed.

These threads are moving so fast, I can't keep up, getting the odd peak through the day! Thanks everyone for keeping the information coming in.

Same - the view on my phone cuts off where DU will be sitting!

BMA are doctors and activist medical students and we all know medics close ranks to cover for their own in a crisis. Even if it means throwing nurses under the bus. Or women. Or patients. It’s sinister stuff when you think about it.

WTAF - the GMC have permitted a new "identity"? Literally? On request?

Ooh, Rosie Duffiel d asking should female nurses be expected to change in front of men who identify as female?
https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1889308250622882285?s=19

I thought there must be multiple concurrent rooms - not that many of us in this one, and only 80 in the lobby

I suspected they might let Upton change his GMC number as they are convinced no trans person must ever have their dead name linked to them, but it is still shocking that they have such a poor grasp of safety and their responsibility to patients

This makes sense. The system wasn't created to deal with this number of observers.

Correct

Are they still adjourned?

Got an almost instant response with a link, no pin, but as others upthread have said, I'm back in now. Might be worth others trying again.

about 10 minutes ago

Haha

"Well exactly. JR said they were about well-being and not relevant, now she says she hadn't made it clear to Upton to disclose, but Upton said he forgot about them"

Is she saying that she advised DU not to disclose emails about wellbeing, which is why it's her fault? It's hard to buy this as her main argument to date has been focussed on DU's wellbeing. I would have thought emails to DU's union would carry at least as much weight, possibly more, than his contemporaneous notes

I can't find Beth Upton on the register. Is he listed under Elizabeth?

I got a reply to my request within minutes. I am in, and like others my view is of multiple other observers with the tribunal in a much smaller screen. It’s how I remember it appearing in other ET hearings.

only DrU’s support in the room (or at least visible) - no witness, no panel, court staff or legal teams in yet.

It's been nearly 15 minutes for me since emailing for a new link. This is rubbish.

How is his wellbeing not relevant? Isn't that why we're in this mess to begin with? His hurty feels? Or maybe they give away the fact that he wasn't as hurty as he says he is...

I have now emailed twice in the last 30 minutes and still not had a response.

I've given up trying to get in. It's now telling me the PIN is invalid.

You can't appeal.just because you don't like the result. There must be specific grounds for doing so - a legal fault in the original.hearing.

After watching proceedings for the past couple of days I'm starting to see how the relevant authorities might have just curled up into a ball and agreed to do anything - ANYTHING - as long as Upton just shut up and went away.

Same

I wonder if Upton used his private email for messages he wanted to keep private? Given his speed at making notes on SP's behaviour I imagine he was well aware of what information he might be asked to provide

I expect they have a procedure to do so. Upton won't have been the first doctor to transition. I think it's good the OG Upton is still on there, so that he remains traceable via his old GMC number.