NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

I had the PIN invalid too, emailed them and v quickly sent another link which is slightly different and no PIN needed. I'm back in the lobby stuck there again

I WFTCHTJ, however, there aren't many others in the waiting room. A journalist and KC names are showing.

Nice little marker laid down by NC there for when/if there is a further instance of non disclosure and JR/DU try to cover their arses with I didn't explain properly/I wasn't told. Any more surprise emails coming to light looks like deliberate shenanigans.

Presumably DU is very upset that e-mails on the "private phone" will be examined - sounds like JR is trying to keep DU on board to protect her real clients - Fife

I spoke too soon, I'm in. So looks like the link has changed?

Damn, I nipped out to Waitrose and missed that glorious exchange.

Somebody on X has christened R2 as Dr Uptonogood, which pretty much sums up my thoughts at the moment.

I have had no response to my email as yet.

Justice for meee
But not for thee...

Woo! Got back in!

Got new link but it looks weird....

Yes. And combine this with the self-ID policy that is clearly in place. If we go with DU's take on this, then not only is it on (often unwell, possibly not fully conscious, sometimes traumatised) women to personally kick up a fuss, AND they are then at risk of retribution for being "anti-trans" - but any male who fancies it can have this power over women just by saying some words that give him this power. That's any male HCP who would like access to women's bodies and power over women for nefarious reasons.

What could possibly go wrong eh.

And - please someone correct me if I'm wrong - with a new GMC number also I think.

Though that is so unheard of to change one's GMC number that I am now doubting myself.

IMO, it's inconceivable that JR didn't explain disclosure to DU and how important it is. He's just chosen to ignore it and I suspect it suits JR to take the blame rather than admit she's been hoodwinked by DU.

Yeah, funny that...🤔

TBF someone has to do her job. I don't like her arguments or who she is representing but we all need her to do a really thorough job, and for the judge to be completely fair. It's annoying but the objections are only slowing things down, they aren't really stopping NC so far... So if DU's views are judged to be Not WORIADS, it will be less likely that there are no loopholes left for reverse ferreting. This case will go to appeal whatever happens so we want it all to be done well so the decision is robust.

Yes, this was my question: related to gender identity belief, not gender critical belief.

When I saw the answer, my brain didn't spot the incorrect word. But the principle is still the same i.e. that there is no precedent that the idea that "we all have a gender identity" is a WORIADS belief. Thank you as well for the legal confirmation of this @prh47bridge

and why have they not muted everyone!

Sent a new link and now in

Yes taking the blame herself so that NC can't use it to claim costs later (costs not usually awarded but perhaps not complying with a court order (causing the hearing to run over) would be one of the circumstances where they do)

Oh bugga - I moved my mouse accidentally and put myself out of the room.
Now the PIN isn't working.
I've emailed them for the new PIN

Me. I’ve emailed to ask if details have changed.

It already looks deliberate - they were supposed to disclose BMA correspondence over the weekend (as already late and in breach of the order). Why wasn’t this disclosed ? Forgotten (DU) or not relevant (JR) or in error ( J R again)

Oh gawd if the same thing happens this afternoon I give up!

I bet NC really enjoyed saying that after the way JR has been behaving towards her!

Well exactly. JR said they were about well-being and not relevant, now she says she hadn't made it clear to Upton to disclose, but Upton said he forgot about them.

It's just a mass of contradictions.