NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

With this Judge??

Who knows!

I'm getting a blank screen with WFTCHTJ on laptop and if I try by phone, it says invalid PIN. Anyone else having this?

Was v. surprised at JR taking blame for non-disclosure?

How long is a piece of string. It will depend on how long it takes for R2's lawyers to redact and send the emails to NC and then how long it takes NC to decide if any of the emails are relevant to her line of questioning. Could easily be 30 mins+

I find it impossible to have any sympathy for JR, doing her job or not, but she's not covered herself in glory as a new KC.

The disclosure requirement is really clear - you disclose everything that could potentially help or hurt your own case, that is relevant. That includes EVERYTHING - private WhatsApp messages, texts, emails, letters. It's incredibly invasive - there is no privacy. It's astonishing that this material hasn't been disclosed. Normally lawyers are extremely clear about what disclosure demands, so something must have gone wrong for this to not be before the hearing.

As the Wall of Sad is still here, as is NC, the implication seems to be that they’re not finished for today - so, minutes rather than cutting it short altogether?

Sorry, that was an answer to @exwhyzed

Looking at his dad sat there now and throughout these proceedings, I wonder what he really thinks?

PINs haven't changed. I'd open up a new webpage and if that doesn't work I'd close my browser and restart it and try again.

@peakedtraybake I’m kicked off having waited an hour. Now also saying my pin invalid.

I suspect she's making more of the long period of cross examination & implying it's beyond the scope, as she'll need to argue against unnecessarily incurred additional work/fees from the ridiculously late disclosure of evidence - about/from/to the witness currently giving evidence - when it comes to the financial cost of her clients' failure to disclose relevant evidence.

No matter which way you look at it, NHS Fife's conduct has both prolonged the cross examination of DU & added many more hours of work onto NC's team in the middle of the actual (10 day) hearing.

How many people in the lobby?

I'm pretty sure, from the photos, that he's had a nose job. Perhaps that was the key moment, when his male nose was chiselled into something more feminine? Et voila, Theodore died and Beth was born.

Not anyone who works in the NHS. Compulsory annual.GDPR training includes very prominently that personal emails are subject to all data protections regs, are disclosable for legal and FoI requests, and should never be used because of security issues and because of the difficultly of compiling info from multiple sources in the event of any enquiry.

@Greyskybluesky a PP linked to a series called 'Queering the Library' which was developed under his remit at Edinburgh University. So presumably he's ok with all this

I got that too. Just emailed to ask for help

I don't think JR can fairly comment on the length of time it's going to take to question DU, given the number of times her clients have failed to submit full evidence. NC should be given time tomorrow to run further questions, if needed, due to the disruptions caused by JRs failure to deliver all the information.

Wondering if it is capacity issues

Went to the tip this morning en route to an appointment with my 19 year old DD

Told the woman I normally have a chat to that works there briefly about the case. She said that, as a menopausal lesbian, she’s had enough shit to deal with without men like DU pulling stunts like this and she’s angry

My daughter also said that as a victim of SA/rape she would’ve ‘chopped every part of herself off’ after the horrific shit that she was subjected to and could see how young women and girls have fallen into the cult of trans.

I peaked about ten years ago and I’m so very glad DD has done so in her teens

Just musing on the fact that it's noticeable how when DU makes a 'mistake' it's all 'oopsie' but when someone else does something mildly irritating to him it's 'burn the witch'...

I'm wondering if in future it might be possible to have a separate thread for all the techy stuff about access to remote viewing.
I can't be the only person who does't have twitter and is relying on these threads to follow the case. V v annoying to have soooo many posts basically saying "I'm in, "I'm kicked out", "What is WFTCHTJ?" "How do I access," etc.

Mine isn't working either. Have emailed the clerk.

Flipping hell - kicked out again from waiting room and now pin doesn’t work! Anyone else have this?!

I'm also getting pin invalid

WTAF?
I've been reading along but WTAF is my first comment.

Sandie Peggie. Wishing her all the luck in the world. Fingers crossed for her.