NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

If you are a witness in your own case and the judge seems to like you, you should be worried. They may be making sure that you don't have any grounds to argue they were biased when they rule against you.

It's excessively so to my mind.

It just kicked me off because I'd been waiting an hour. Back to WFTCHTJ now.

His height. He was very definite and emphasitc about that (although not concise).

Because he's denying that he is male, isn't he? He's like a bloody broken record.
I am not male!

Therefore on whatever planet he is living on, transphobia is the only possible reason why a woman would refuse to let him touch her vagina.

I would like, just once, for NC to respond to his statement that he is not male with 'are you on glue'

But were they 'serious allegations' about patient safety? I'm not clear that this is true. He had no date, he had no patient, it was all incredibly vague and seems to mainly be that SP was trying to avoid his coercively controlling behaviour.

I hope you're right!

I've been waiting for nearly an hour now

I was thrown out an hour ago (had kept it running on laptop, but couldn't watch). I got the WFTCHTJ.

I've just gone back to my emails and joined anew, and still have WFTCHTJ. Could someone confirm if we're on a break, or if I'm still ejected?

Thanks

I'll be interested to see the statements (and other documentation) taken during the investigation(s) for clarity on what they at least thought they were deciding on.

Would the apparent pre-emption of a confidential investigation result by KS in her all-consultants email be enough to have it thrown out, or would this be more of a disciplinary matter for her (do consultants get disciplined, or is it maybe censured? )

Sally Hines is someone who applies much of whatever intellect she has into making herself look utterly stupid but virtuously righteous.

I think they're having their lunch, Bat.

I think we are watching it being tested ... I'm watching/not watching/watching - argh I can't bear it!

It's the emails between DU and the BMA. An order was made last Wednesday for them.

I can't remember if knowledge of their existence came from things already in evidence or prior witness testimony, but it came to light that DU had spoken to the BMA but no evidence of this was in the bundle.

Me too. I'm wondering whether to go in on audio and video, but am hanging on with the observer login. Will probably be booted out at an hour.

I'm making more contemporaneous notes about this shameful treatment...

Nothing of substance to add except thank you for all the updates and this guy gives me the total and complete creeps. Imagine being in his orbit.

So is there anyone who doesn't see Upton as being highly coercive, slippery as fuck, drunk on his own importance, and horribly gaslighting?

I'm not watching it, but judging by his answers, I can't imagine anything being more obvious.

I actually might have to take some days off work for this! Haven't had the chance to read the end of the last thread and my lunch is almost over.

Thanks to everyone listening to the tribunal and making all these notes.

Surely if we are to believe Dr Upton version of biology, all the textbooks need to be rewritten from key stage 3 science upwards. It’s a medical marvel.

But wait. All his patients so far have been relying on their knowledge and mental facilities to assess that he man pretending to be a woman.

If Upton reckons it’s all about perception then he ought to help them by confirming to them their truth.

In the queer theory universe it's noticing and naming something that makes it exist.

Thx @GCITC

Well, I perceive him as a git-faced git.

Do we think he's going to argue that the words in the order to disclose don't mean what everyone accepts they mean so he was 'confused'? Maybe a lengthy treatise on what 'emails' means or could possibly potentially mean in all circumstances?

There have been tech issues and we were all booted around 12, then let back in and booted again. People were slowly being let back in (but the hearing was muted) before the lunch break.

I'm still WFTCHTJ

Are the BMA implicated in this now too?