NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

Edinburgh university then!!

NC: Women feel more strongly, too?
BU: True for some women. Not all. Many things society tries to force us to do. Society tries to enforce heterosexuality.
NC: I'm asking you to generalise. Because of how society treats women, women feel modesty taboos more strongly than men. Agree?
BU: No.

NC should have lampooned the risk line of questioning

The gut feeling bit

She's going to have to take him down the 'you're not male' line to get anywhere. IANAL

He's so condescending.

anyone else shouting at the screen - all this "I'm a lady" is infuriating!!!!

It is not possible to say what I want to say 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

NC: Would I be right in thinking because of your views in not wanting to undress in front of men, men and women should be entitled to privacy?

BU: Individual locked cubicles would be better.

I hope she asks, if women don't feel modesty taboos more strongly than men, why woman can't go topless in a public swimming pool.

This man knows nothing about being a woman, it's all an extended expression of dupers' delight.

NC we are all products of our environment. Do you agree that women feel more strongly on this issue as a result
DU - some women. Society also pushes hetrosexuality
NC - would you agree that men and women in general should have privacy from each other?
DU - everyone should have privacy. We should have locked cubicles

Anybody should be entitled to privacy... except those bigots who ask me to leave!

I think she's leading him into agreeing sandie deserved privacy

Disturbingly hilarious that he considers himself an expert on women’s behaviour and internal narrative. And is so confidently sharing his views with a women.

I am truly disgusted at this man telling a woman how women feel.

She's leading him into her trap

Exactly

Introducing this to the thread:

As a current cartoon caption on TwiX says:

If women don't require single sex spaces to be safe from men, why do transwomen need access to women's single sex spaces to be safe from men?

https://x.com/velvethammer/status/1887972506172064239

Are you aware of the law that employers are required to provide single sex changing rooms would be good.

Time to pull out my handy stats image again because we know that they're 5× more likely to be a sexual predators than the average male

NC: If there has to be communal provision, given your feelings about changing in front of men, is it a good thing that CR are separate for men and women?

BU: A good thing, probably, greatest amount of comfort for greatest number of people, some choose to change in a toilet or separate space.

Is it a good thing that the hospital provides separate changing rooms for men and women? Waffle waffle...

I felt sorry for him over the weekend and was worried he was vulnerable, but he’s just a raging TRA who seems to think women are there to serve his needs. Go NC!

He didnt go to Edinburgh university - wish people would stop saying that. His qualification was Dundee.

I have faith in Naomi, I'm sure she's come up against a lot of sexist men who think they're more intelligent than her in court.

I wonder what NC is doing - she must have anticipated how Upton would respond. Maybe the whole point is to show him being clueless. I hope it will eventually become clear!