NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

We split changing rooms by gender - FFS!

BU repeats his understanding of the question is - commonly we split by gender, CR, reason why is safety. Nobody believes taht all men are predators?

NC repeats question. It doesn't follow from existence of separate facilities that anyone thinks that all men are predators

BU - agree that most don't think that all men are predators

FFS why is everyone pretending not to understand the Q?

One of the worst things about the trans nonsense is when I have to listen to sensible people like Naomi having to explain 2+2=4 to people who then pretend not to know what numbers are or what equals means or even why she cares.

Nice

Wow, I think we just had the first straight answer... 😊

DU agrees you can't tell from looking at a man whether he's a predator or not ❤

NC - not all men, but some men are predators

BU - yes

NC - majority of predators are men. You can't tell from looking at a man whether he's a predator.

BU - yes

NC - in the same way, keeping transwomen out of women only spaces, doesn't mean that anyone thinks all transwomen are predators. Just like keeping all men out of women's spaces.

I have to go back to work. It’ll be a sad day for women everywhere if SP loses this tribunal.

Absolutely incredible that so many organisations and institutions and supposedly intelligent professionals have happily and intentionally led us to the point of women being told to STFU when feeling unsafe without dignity or privacy.

What message is this for our daughters?! Ignore your own wants, needs and safety in the pursuit of kindness. Heaven forbid, never be rude to a man.

Remember folks, this is just the warm-up lap. When NC's questions turn to how the complaints and allegations of clinical misconduct were made, we're at DefCon3

BU - I've seen statements that some people say all TW are predators.

NC - trying again. Do you agree that keeping Transidentifying men out of women's facilities doesn't mean that anyone thinks all transwomen are predators?

What a load of wank from the fragrant DU. What would the bloke on the Clapham omnibus think of all this? Are judges supposed to identify as Joe average when making their decisions, with regards also to relevant previous legislation.

Thanks to everyone for the updates.

@Mollyollydolly are the puppies okay and (I'll make a huge assumption here) their mum?

Good question

Come on

JR interrupts once again

JR jumps in before DU can answer.

FFS it's such a simple premise.

Witness doesn't understand the difference between

Not(A implies B)

and

Not B

Sadly I'm not sure the judge does either.

NC - do you agree that if you exclude 'transwomen' from women's facilities, the exclusion doesn't carry a necesary implication that anyone thinks all transwomen are predators

BU - it's implied a high proportion of them are predators

NC is circling her prey readying for the kill

DU and JR are fighting hard against NC being allowed to pick apart transactivist beliefs.

I’m lost and need lunch.

BU - Transwomen are not men. It implies enough transwomen are predators to put them on a par with men, which isn't true.

JR leaping in to try and stop this, because DU really, really does not want to admit that TW could possibly be excluded from female CRs.

DrU - it implies that the amount of TW that are predators is on parity with men, which is not true

Ooh 'transwomen are not men' said with a smug little face.

That's NC convinced, i'm sure!