NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

JR asks how DU can give evidence about trans people as a whole. I thought they were 'my people', as referred to in testimony to her last week?

Absolutely. Though they may justifiably say the same about this board! Hence asking for hopefully an unbiased true assessment!

This is starting to feel a bit like shooting fish in a barrel...

I've used the comfort break to make a cup of tea in my Sex Matters mug.

DU knows he's walking into a trap and trying his hardest not to answer...

Hard to know @SernieBanders

Down to the judge

But the question of why permission was given seems relevant.

Does that get looked at does anyone know

He keeps calling men, 'cis' men.

NC - do you agree that rules keep men out of women's spaces don't have assumption all men are a risk

BU - if you base a rule on stats on violence, that rule is based on suspicion that a male could be a risk

NC - anybody could be a risk

BU - if it's a safety issue, you assume a high enough degree of risk

NC - a much higher propensity to crime violent and sexual in men, but doesn't mean that anybody thinks that all men are more violent

BU - I take that to mean cis men

NC - trying again, existence of societal rules don't mean we think that all men are predators.

I think the phrase cis man is going to do a lot of heavy lifting in DrU's evidence

Is he trying to rewrite safeguarding rules? Or obfuscating?

Judge just called DU his

Judge avoiding using he or she with DU

Judge just misgendered DU. Excellent he thinks he's a man!

I wasn't sure whether my ears deceived me or not

Judge just misgendered DU. 😁

"What are you expecting from this witness - his opinion?"

Judge sees it.

Small gains

Why is the Judge being hard of thinking on this????

WTH. It's a simple question. Why is J being so difficult about this

NC - asks if it is true that low percentage of trans have any treatment (I think - sound issue)
JR - objects, DrU can’t know about trans community

NC - question re reason for keeping men out of F changing rooms
DrU - they could be predators

NC - the existence of separate changing rooms doesn’t mean that everyone thinks that all men are predators

NC - nobody thinks that all men are predators

Judge - asking witness to tell us [crackle] all of society - trying to understand the questions

NC - a matter of logic. I'm suggesting that the fact we have these rules doesn't mean we think all men are predators

Judge - which laws

NC - separate facilities. The existence of separate facilites for men and women is widespread,

Judge - some workplaces have non-gendered facilities

NC - there is no necessary assumption that all men are predators

Oh I missed the misgendering. Hate crime!

She is not part of the support group.

split by sex!!!

Places that are employers and don't have single sex toilets etc are not compliant with the law - right?