NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

Actually, bullocks are more akin to boys taking puberty blocking drugs than to bulls. Perhaps a pedantic observation.

Ha ha, I see you all did. 😘

Very much so.

I shouted YES! when NC was explaining to the judge that she saying that it was important to have explained what the difference was between DU and a hypothetical Pete. I knew we would get to this point then.
GO PETE

I hope NC now presses the point that most or at least some people (patients, staff, strangers) will read DU as male and so will act the same as if DU came into the changing room then as if DU did and according to DU own words this would be natural.

How long will this 5 minutes be do we think?

Hilarious picture!

He's showing again and again that he is in no way like a woman - he so clearly doesn't think like a woman.

He's so busy trying to get trans/gender points in, that he's forgotten he's supposed to "be a woman"

What woman wouldn't think that M vs F is not a crucial risk assessment?!

17 mins is my guess.

He goes on and on and on about gender expression, gender identity, gender this, gender that. I can't wait for NC to ask "what about sex?"

@ickky Is the mornings transcript available?

Finally made it in to watch. The support crew are squashed in like sardines aren't they. My main observation as someone why hasn't seen anything tip now and just followed updates on here is that the judge has a nice voice and seems calm, and DU is a slippery snake who looks and sounds male. And his answers and attempts to twist facts are infuriating.

nice work!

DU senior appeared to be asleep in the break.

TT ground to a halt for me about 30 mins ago, I suspect something to do with the pic. We don’t want TT refused access (although the pic is clearly nothing to do with them), so I don’t think this should be encouraged.

Who's that with the suffragette scarf?

Is the bloke behind DU manspreading to look extra manly? To emphasise that DU isn't a proper man?

Why would someone in the support group be wearing a suffragette scarf? I thought that was a transphobic dog whistle?

Of course she may just have a scarf she likes

It can be hard. I've done jury service and at one very repetitive part a few were nodding off

Just illustrating that it's only the most entitled and misogynistic of men - who only think about THEIR feelings, THEIR wants, that ignore a 'no' from a woman. Ignore the very fact of women having feelings and ride roughshod over any feelings that might differ from theirs. He doesn't seem to get the concept of 'consent'.

Come on NHS decent blokes - the bad men aren't being thrown out any more so there's no point you staying out. Maybe you could all ID as women and the actual females could have your changing room. Wonder what DU would do if the changing rooms remained the same with the same labels but the entire populations other than him switched. The handmaidens can stay in the 'women's' if they want to very much, though.

I've been a bit dubious about all this prolonged 'what about Pete' questioning TBH. I'm sure that DrU's TRA following will spin it as a victory for DrU because he has had an opportunity to recite all the familiar lines which they think are 'gotchas', even the hysterectomy made an appearance!

But I'm not a barrister, and I'm certainly not NC....
having recently seen what she looks like, her sharp suits, and her effect on swooning FWR posters, I wouldn't mind swapping places with her

Is she doing that surreptitious "help me, I've been kidnapped" gesture towards the camera?

No TT seems to be having some trouble, they stopped tweeting at 11.54am.

Given the line of very recent line of questioning I hope the judge is musing on which loo is BU has used during this comfort break.

That is a fascinating observation about the suffragette scarf 🤔

Someone needs to mention that online poll would you rather meet a bear or a man when alone in the woods.

This really is one key difference. My DH thinks nothing of walking the dogs late at night in a park when alone. I would never do that.