NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

BUT HOW DO WE KNOW HIS INTENT

Is this where NC is going?

Amazing

To see this crumble

Gosh listening to this line of questioning feels very icky. I really don't like DU talking about menstrual cycles and women in states of undress.

Dr Upton is a piece of work isn't he? Complete TRA. I imagine all the sympathy shown by some on these threads will have entirely evaporated.

What IS he saying?

digging hole right now

Letting DU chat here was a good choice

So it's not what you do, it's your intention!

Hes getting very wordy and convoluted in his responses

Pete needs to be a gorilla before a +6’ hockey playing man really understands the problem, I think.

Mine has certainly disappeared

DU it's about Pete's intention whether this is menacing behaviour.

He's gabbling

DU’s position almost sounding like he feels anyone can get changed anywhere and it’s all good as long as no one means to make anyone feel uncomfortable or humiliated.

Except the law is clear that the intention of behaviour or actions in a harassment situation are irrelevant, it’s the impact of that on the harassed that is the concern.

He can't help sticking up for the men 😂

Pete is now moonlighting as a plumber.

God he's an insufferable little prick.

Might change my UN to "PeteThePlumber"

BU - if someone has says 'I feel uncomfortable wth you being there, I feel uncomfortable and feel menaced, if Pete has been ...

NC - let's assume it's the women's CR, he's not supposed to be there

BU - a woman has communicated she feels uncoomfortable. I'd understand why she'd feel menaced. But ... I agree it would be unusual behaviour on Pete's part. I don't feel getting changed to be in herenetly sexual nor menacing. Pete's intent is important, his voice, his proximity, his knowledge. That doesn't exclude the other person feeling a certain way. But to cahractersise as menacing implies an intention to menace. If his intention is to menace it's menacing, but it coudl equally be interpreted as menaching.

NC - Pete's presence alone is enough to create humiliating environment for the nurse

BU - not necessarily . What if Pete's the repair person, a plumber, coming to fix a blocked toilet, maybe he's made a mistkae, these are two hypothetical scenarios

Now it's Upton talking about a plumber going into the women's changing rooms. That sounds like a porn film.

'existing in space' is such a weaselly culty phrase

Doesn't he realise how he's sounding - women wouldn't mind if a man came in a closed the door and started getting changed because he might be a male plumber

well DrU's intention is to make everyone know he thinks himself a woman and everyone must fall in line.

Nothing about how the women feel? There’s a surprise