NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

Much as I like NC, I don't think her analogies are getting her very far.

This is all being slowly slowly catchy monkey over showing that fundamentally Upton cannot put himself in the shoes of an average woman.

I hope it lands @nauticant

a pretty good job I think as far as trans activists go.

I agree, they are usually dire in a different way

He's trying to avoid giving an answer that says men shouldn't be there

Judge is having to explain to JR what the questions mean!

NC - or if boys stand outside cubicle and speculate whether a girl is dealing with her period?

BU - don't think periods are inherently sexual. If they were discusisng her genitals, being crude, could be sexual. I don't think the menstrual cycle is inherently sexual.

He's trying to pretend that if someone walks in on a woman changing, it doesn't matter whether it's a man or a woman. Only how they behave. So hairy Pete walking into the womens' changing and standing there isn't menacing until he actually does or says something physically or sexually aggressive. 🙄

DU really can't afford to admit that women are made uncomfortable by men in any situation, can he?

Unless they're sooperspeshul MK2 penisy women.

Back to Pete...

Pete is a good line keep going

And DrU shows he has no concept of being a woman

I can see where NC is going with this. She's boxing him in on the men in women's CR is bad until his only defence is it doesn't apply to me because I'm a woman because I say I am.

He just can't put himself in the shoes of a woman can he!?

NC - hypothetical Pete - imagine the nurse saying 'go away pete, can't you see I'm chaning. Suppose if Pete says 'that's okay, I'm changing too'.

JR - objecting. Pete could be a transman.

JR objecting again

JR - I object! Pete could be a transman!

JR: I object to a question that hasn't been asked yet . . .!!!

JR - A transman having transitioned and had voice surgery might be totally entitled to be in that changing room.

So now transmen can be in the women's too?!

Oh so you do want biological men in men's CR JR?

So both trans men and trans women are entitled to use women's changing rooms.

JR interrupts to say Pete might be a TW. It's a ridiculous example.

Why would a trans man be changing in the ladies, Jane??

So a trans man is ok in a female changing room according to JR because she is biologically female