NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

Noticeable now the emphasis Upton put on his own presence in feeling changing room being fine because he made sure no-one thought he was looking.

Is it menacing

I'd say so

They have mixed sex nude bathing in some swimming pools in Finland also . But they tell you this when you go to buy your entrance ticket, so if you object you wouldn't go in. But even then, the changing rooms are still single sex.

NC - Peter enters the room and closes the door behind him. Menacing?
DU - Could you define positively menacing?

Petes going to say the magic words, isn't he?

That’s very much the route American trans ideology designers have gone down with toilets. To the point this design feature has infiltrated public toilets and school toilets in this country. Private cubicles in mixed sex spaces are the most dangerous for VAWG. That’s why they have been nicknamed rape cubicles. They are also dangerous for everyone who is having a medical episode, which happens more often in toilets as that’s where people go if they fall ill.
The consultation documents for uk public toilets (Document T) used a transwomen opinion as ‘evidence’ for the reason to have private cubicles in the design recommendations for people with long term health conditions - the very people who it is obviously dangerous for and whose health conditions weren’t even acknowledged.

NC- suppose Pete steps into room and closes door. That is positively menacing, do you agree?

BU - The third scnario - Pete enters room and stops, closes the door.

NC - Pete, big burly man comes into room, closes door behind him

Do you agree that stepping into the room after seing woman in bra and pants is menacing?

BU - what do you mean by 'positively menacihng: I couldn't speak to Pete's intention'

He's starting to squirm, keep up the pressure NC

He's constantly trying to second guess where NC is going with her questions.

This is showing he truly doesn't understand women at all

DU thinks he is so clever, don’t he?

Come on NC

Good questioning

Keeps putting himself into the role of the woman but then describes the experience of a man.

COME ON NC

Surely she’s going to put to him that he’s a man. Wonder when….

Nc: It'd be reasonable for nurse to find menaching

BU : If someone stepped into room and closed door, most peopel would find that unusual and menacing

NC: It'd be fair to characterise that as unwanted conduct of a sexual nature

BU - would depend, if state of someone being naked makes it sexual. Agree it's unwanted.

DU - I think if someone walked into the room and closed the door behind them, most people would find that unusual and possible menacing.
DU - I would agree it's unwanted conduct

JR interrupting again

Unwanted conduct of a sexual nature

so of course JR interrupts

DU isn’t keeping up with this at all. A lot of frantic mental squirming going on.

Bugger off JR

He's not daft. He's doing a pretty good job I think as far as trans activists go.

He's responding so cautiously and feigning such confusion at these questions that any actual woman would be able to answer instantly.

JR - what's alleged to be sexual conduct in that question?

Judge - that's the question, [muffled]

NC - Isn't it comparable to when some boys in a mixed school run into girls toilets to intimidate?

BU - never been present in that situation, can't comment

NC needs to keep going with the menacing line