NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

Stop bloody interrupting.

He's not answering from the point of view of being a woman or having a woman's point of view at all.

I'm in Sweden and at my local swimming pool saunas are definitely not mixed sex

Nc - I refrained from interrrupting long sections of Ms Russell's wholly irrelevant cross examinaition last week as you'd allow her a lot of latitude and would deal with questions of relevance at end. Grateful if you'd give Ms R a simlair indicaition.

Judge - lot of latitude is allowed. [mutters] for Ms Russel to decide to object or not

Ooh NC is well rattled!

Yes proceed

Ooh, NC asking judge to tell JR to stop interrupting

Gross

he allowed JR to question sandie's husband on his facebook posts!

NC cup's get's put down firmly.

Ah if a man averts his gaze that's all fine then

That's a Sure Jan moment!

NC - if Chris has walked ino a room where a woman is hanging, right thing to do is to back out.

BU - yes, avert his gaze, probably close the door somewhat, apologise for startling someone, but I'd also ... blundered, swung door, expect an apology, if you find someone unexpectedly undressing [I'm confused]

Noooo! you have to keep cool sharp and focused, NC!

He's not is he? And he can't even see it.

Imaginary Pete a big man with short hair coming into the changing room now. ..

She's going to get him to state how he's different to Pete.

Trouble is, Upton is imagining himself as the female nurse and answering for how he feels.

Note the suggestion that as long as chris 'overts his gaze' there's not really a problem, no suggestion that chris should immediately leave the room he's incorrectly blundered into.

NC - now take an imaginary colleauge - big man, short hair, deep bass voice, has just entered women's changing room, where female nurse is in bra and pants. If Pete doesn't bck out and apologise, says hello and stays put. Do you agree that that's lke to be read by F nurse as deliberate violation.

BU - if he just steps into room and stays htere, I'd agree that's unusual, I'd believe intending to [inaudible]

It must be difficult when the witness is arguing up is down and basically playing a playground game of opposites.

"Under his gaze"= works too for in his presence

I am in Sweden! We absolutely do not have mixed sex naked saunas.

Families may sauna together and also close old friends, but public saunas are split by sex.

If two families sauna together, or a mixed-sex group of friends, we wear cossies and are careful with towels.

In Austria you do get mixed-sex saunas, but not in Sweden.

Imaginary Pete is going to be a trans woman

He's clearly not thinking about this situation AS A WOMAN at all!