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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

1000 replies

nauticant · 10/02/2025 10:54

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Boiledbeetle · 10/02/2025 11:36

DU hasn't consciously ever thought about why we have the split

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2025 11:36

Judge - this is something that goes back centuries

NC -

Judge - that would be a different question

JR: My opp referes to society's rules - cultural mores(?}

NC: These qu's are about 2nd respondent's understanding

Judge - perhaps if you rephrase, if it's a matter of which this witness can give evidence, a different quetsion

NC: Can I put the qu this way: Is it your understanding that the reason for these rules, generally speaking, women don't want to undress in front of men?

BU: I haven't ever thought about it. I can imagine that's possibly an element of it.
[missed a bit]....
modesty, purity, we have done it like that, we don't have to do it like that.

maltravers · 10/02/2025 11:36

CriticalCondition · 10/02/2025 11:35

DU I've never thought about why we split changing rooms.

There speaks a man!

yourhairiswinterfire · 10/02/2025 11:36

JR: How can witness give evidence of how most men or women feel? IN any case, my swimming poool has mixed sex facilites.

The pool/baths isn't pretending they're single-sex though, like NHS Fife are.

RocketPanda · 10/02/2025 11:36

I can imagine the Judge like Buddy from Elf.
Beyonce, I know her!

EasternStandard · 10/02/2025 11:36

But he still doesn't want to be in the men's CR

He just wants access to the women's

Judge annoying.

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2025 11:36

NC: These preferences aren't wholly symmetrical. Women don't want to undress in front of men because they find presence of men intimidating, embarrassing.

ickky · 10/02/2025 11:37

Oh FFS why don't they record the hearing do we don't all have to wait while the Judge writes longhand. Such a waste of time.

Classicstripewastaken · 10/02/2025 11:37

DU hasn't thought about why we split changing facilities yet has a strong preference to use one over the other?! 🤦🏼‍♀️

It's clear DU is holding back where he perceives the answer will undermine his case.

Bannedontherun · 10/02/2025 11:37

NC exposing that DU reason to be in female CR is to assert his Gender ID and is not a genuine emotional safety issue for him.

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2025 11:37

NC: Men wont' want to undress in front of women because they know women will find it intimidating, embarrassing. Both cases, it's more about women's needs than men's.

BU: I don't think being embarrasssed/intimitaed/wish for privacy is gendered.

PoshCoffee · 10/02/2025 11:37

Lady voice is back.

EasternStandard · 10/02/2025 11:38

Oh fuck off with your Sweden

lifeinthelastlane · 10/02/2025 11:38

The judge's pool will have cubicles for everyone - he doesn't change in the open in a mixed sex pool changing room!

ickky · 10/02/2025 11:38

JR interrupting AGAIN.

bumbledenbarsk · 10/02/2025 11:38

We are not in Sweden. Thanks J

katmarie · 10/02/2025 11:38

We're not in sweden...

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2025 11:38

BU: You'll find some men who feel intimidated/embarrassed

JR: It's also cutlutrally specific. IN Sweden, naked saunas have men and women

Judge - we're not in Sweden.

BettyBooper · 10/02/2025 11:38

NC - is it your understanding that Women don't want to undress in front of men because they find the experience intimidating and embarrassing. Wheras a lot of the reason men dont want to undress in front of women is because they know women will find it embarrassing. Not symmetrical

DU - No don't agree. Not gendered.

JR - Also cultural, Sweden, saunas

J were not in Sweden

nauticant · 10/02/2025 11:38

"We're not in Sweden" from the judge to slap down JR.

OP posts:
GCITC · 10/02/2025 11:38

Well, we're not in Sweden.

EasternStandard · 10/02/2025 11:38

And the man sitting there doesn't want to be around men

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2025 11:38

Judge - an objection needs to come before the answer is given.

RobinEllacotStrike · 10/02/2025 11:38

JR - In sweden men and women have naked saunas together
J - we're not in Sweden

😁😁😁

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 10/02/2025 11:38

J I don't have any jurisdiction in Sweden.

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