NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #3

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

Maya explaining the results to the judge now

What is the points if JR questions about if Maya thinks TW are men? In law, without a GRC, they are. Is this not a court?

MF speaks so clearly about the data. It's a privilege to hear from her.

JR trying to show maya has in built bias?

When will we see Naomi Cunningham in action?

Conclusion that miss Russell refers to i think is that the males who identified as transwomen and had surgery continued too have the same rate of criminal conviction as the group of regular untreated males.

Would DU examine a patient without a screen around the bed or the cubicle?

Has he not heard of the words dignity and privacy?

Would DU undress in front of a crowd of strangers without a screen?

Why does he need to go a changing room because he wants dignity and privacy?

Why cant SP have the same?

They looked like a population of males they had the same pattern and levels of conviction

MF explains that TIM have the same pattern of criminal offending as males. And definitely not as females. JC disagrees.

The claimant's witnesses go first and then the defence. That's when NC will get properly stuck in.

I don't understand why they have to go into detail about "trans crimes" at all when SP never felt BU was dangerous, just that he does not belong in women's CR because he is a man. It's about privacy, dignity, a space away from the male gaze.

On the other hand, go Maya!

JR that's not quite true is it. What she says two groups early group and later group later group there wasn't a male pattern of criminality

Maya understands later group didn't differentiate between the males and females

So the later group, they mixed the females in to dilute the results?

When will we see Naomi Cunningham in action?

When the respondents' witnesses are on the stand.

More once the other side calls its witnesses, and she cross-examines. Might be some re-examination of SP's witnesses, but not necessarily, and tends to be brief if done.

<wince> in the witness box, or "giving evidence". This isn't America.

Maya didn't draw any conclusion in the later group, but what she isn't saying us that the group of males had female patterns, that's not in the data. Looked at trans as a whole do didn't have any conclusions. We've done a write up of this study and i can send that if that's helpful.

JR arguing the toss again

<wince> in the witness box. This isn't America.

I'm duly chastened

Is JR deliberately arguing against herself?

JR essentially study does not show male patterns of criminality. Do you agree

Maya explaining to judge journal and blogs and magazines article

I'm a bit lost here

From the sounds of it Jr was trying to show TW are a lower risk to women and not succeeding

That statistic always irritates me because it could equally show that TW are less likely to commit other crimes rather than they are more likely to be sex offenders. That is why the census information is so important; it shows they are many times more likely to commit sex offences than other men in the whole population, not just the prison population.

JR still arguing the toss with Maya

Thanks for the thread and the updates from those who are listening.