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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/01/2025 18:51

Purpose.

Ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex have increasingly used legal and other socially coercive means to permit men to self-identify as women and gain access to intimate single-sex spaces and activities designed for women, from women’s domestic abuse shelters to women’s workplace showers. This is wrong. Efforts to eradicate the biological reality of sex fundamentally attack women by depriving them of their dignity, safety, and well-being. The erasure of sex in language and policy has a corrosive impact not just on women but on the validity of the entire American system. Basing Federal policy on truth is critical to scientific inquiry, public safety, morale, and trust in government itself.

This unhealthy road is paved by an ongoing and purposeful attack against the ordinary and longstanding use and understanding of biological and scientific terms, replacing the immutable biological reality of sex with an internal, fluid, and subjective sense of self unmoored from biological facts. Invalidating the true and biological category of “woman” improperly transforms laws and policies designed to protect sex-based opportunities into laws and policies that undermine them, replacing longstanding, cherished legal rights and values with an identity-based, inchoate social concept.

This will defend women’s rights and protect freedom of conscience by using clear and accurate language and policies that recognize women are biologically female, and men are biologically male.

Policy and Definitions.

The policy is to recognize two sexes, male and female. These sexes are not changeable and are grounded in fundamental and incontrovertible reality:

(a) “Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female. “Sex” is not a synonym for and does not include the concept of “gender identity.”

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.

(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.

(f) “Gender ideology” replaces the biological category of sex with an ever-shifting concept of self-assessed gender identity, permitting the false claim that males can identify as and thus become women and vice versa, and requiring all institutions of society to regard this false claim as true. Gender ideology includes the idea that there is a vast spectrum of genders that are disconnected from one’s sex. Gender ideology is internally inconsistent, in that it diminishes sex as an identifiable or useful category but nevertheless maintains that it is possible for a person to be born in the wrong sexed body.

(g) “Gender identity” reflects a fully internal and subjective sense of self, disconnected from biological reality and sex and existing on an infinite continuum, that does not provide a meaningful basis for identification and cannot be recognized as a replacement for sex.

Recognizing Women Are Biologically Distinct From Men.

Full statement text at https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

Every news outlet is reporting this as anti trans legisliaton.

Not one has reported it is about women's rights.

That's why I started this thread, although there are others as hoping the search engines will pick it up.

Seems that women's rights are so unimportant to anyone, that even when there is a political statement about them, the media reports it is about something else.

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government – The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

OP posts:
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14
SionnachRuadh · 27/01/2025 23:19

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 22:05

I've had some interesting input from my DH recently. He says that many men are very focussed on rules and fairness. They think that it is unfair that 'men who say they are trans' get rights that other men don't have. I asked him if he would want the 'right' to enter a female toilet and he says that is not the point. The point is the unfairness of having different rules for trans-identified men. I wonder if that is why the sports angle resonates so much with men? It's definitely an insight I am going to use when talking with male MPs etc

That's very true. It's a very male way of looking at things, but that's definitely why the sports angle gets men going. Men do like rules that are easily understood and fair and consistent.

If a subset of men can identify out of having to follow the rules - I don't think it's more or less important than the blatant cheating. It's another aspect of the cheating. "How come that bloke gets to do something and I don't, even though I wouldn't dream of doing it?" might not make sense to many women, but it resonates with men.

To most men, a TW in women's sports is like that dad character on the Fast Show who was always bullying his children into sporting challenges that they couldn't possibly beat him at.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:23

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:17

is clear to all of the readers of this thread that I was not making any form of suggestion that if a woman wears a short skirt or if she lifts her skirt she is asking to be sexually assaulted

It wasn’t at all clear to me as it’s exactly what you said - not that you were saying they were “asking to be “ but rather that they - “would be” - when I suggested women didn’t need to be on a urinary leash. As if women lifting their skirts is what causes sexual assault. Perhaps you regret saying it and realise it didn’t make sense- I can understand that. But don’t lash out at me and call me names. Instead, reflect on what you are really arguing for here and be a little more thoughtful/ do a little better next time.

Edited

I don’t regret saying it, your misunderstanding was regrettable (deliberate) .

i am arguing for women’s sex based rights which are not something that apply to trans women because they do not face the same oppression . Your arguments ignore the existence of this oppression because you are blinded by misogyny.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 23:25

@SionnachRuadh
To most men, a TW in women's sports is like that dad character on the Fast Show who was always bullying his children into sporting challenges that they couldn't possibly beat him at.

Just read that out to DH and he says that is exactly right 😂

Helleofabore · 27/01/2025 23:27

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:23

I don’t regret saying it, your misunderstanding was regrettable (deliberate) .

i am arguing for women’s sex based rights which are not something that apply to trans women because they do not face the same oppression . Your arguments ignore the existence of this oppression because you are blinded by misogyny.

Edited

Let’s not forget, as other posters have mentioned, we already know that in some countries girls and women are raped when they have to go to the toilet outside where they can squat. If it is happening today, I have no idea why a poster would deny it was a risk back when public toilets were installed.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:31

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:23

I don’t regret saying it, your misunderstanding was regrettable (deliberate) .

i am arguing for women’s sex based rights which are not something that apply to trans women because they do not face the same oppression . Your arguments ignore the existence of this oppression because you are blinded by misogyny.

Edited

It was not my misunderstanding , it was exactly what you said; you said it because it was the direct logical consequence/ extension of the argument you were trying to make.

what is regrettable is that you struggle so much with the idea that I support recognition, privacy, dignity, for trans people, including social , legal and medical transition. It is deeply regrettable that you believe this support is so incompatible with women’s rights that you believe that support for trans people- and this alone- renders me a “garden misogynist”.

It is regrettable that being challenged in your arguments has caused you to continually lash out at my person.

Play the ball, not the player as they say.

I hope you will take this forward next time,

NotAtMyAge · 27/01/2025 23:32

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 22:09

Wow people really are exposing their reasoning here. Alarming,

Including you, Lostcat. You've made your contempt for women's justified concerns blindingly clear.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 23:36

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:31

It was not my misunderstanding , it was exactly what you said; you said it because it was the direct logical consequence/ extension of the argument you were trying to make.

what is regrettable is that you struggle so much with the idea that I support recognition, privacy, dignity, for trans people, including social , legal and medical transition. It is deeply regrettable that you believe this support is so incompatible with women’s rights that you believe that support for trans people- and this alone- renders me a “garden misogynist”.

It is regrettable that being challenged in your arguments has caused you to continually lash out at my person.

Play the ball, not the player as they say.

I hope you will take this forward next time,

Edited

God, please don't let there be a 'next time' 🙏

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:36

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:31

It was not my misunderstanding , it was exactly what you said; you said it because it was the direct logical consequence/ extension of the argument you were trying to make.

what is regrettable is that you struggle so much with the idea that I support recognition, privacy, dignity, for trans people, including social , legal and medical transition. It is deeply regrettable that you believe this support is so incompatible with women’s rights that you believe that support for trans people- and this alone- renders me a “garden misogynist”.

It is regrettable that being challenged in your arguments has caused you to continually lash out at my person.

Play the ball, not the player as they say.

I hope you will take this forward next time,

Edited

Transwomen can have all of those things without acting as the oppressor by invading women’s single sex spaces . Trans demands to be the oppressor are rooted in the misogyny you have displayed throughout this thread.

i hope you will take this forward next time.

i know you won’t because your misogyny is so deeply embedded.

Helleofabore · 27/01/2025 23:37

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 20:38

Except there were multiple unpickings throughout the thread of a number of the claims you made in those posts.

Notably the idea of a "cognitive sex" (a kind of "gendered soul?") and what reference was being used to 'know' that, say, a biological male in fact had an inner cognition that he was something he'd call "female" or "not male". We didn't get a satisfactory answer to what "female" was referring to here or what this actually meant. Instead we got rather a circular argument saying it's somehow "the same" as a female who knows she is female solely because she has a female body. That's what being "female" is.

What other references for 'female' is that man using for his "automatic cognition"?

And how does his "automatic cognition" that he is female bear any relation to the biological reality of being an actual female?

We know that gender dysphoria exists. But that's not the question we were asking. This was then sort of handwaved away and then you seemed to start arguing that females don't need single sex spaces and it's prejudiced to want them. You haven't addressed any of the stats about the material and known differences between male and female people and how this bears any relation to the "automatic cognition of being female" you claim males who id as trans women have.

You are right hihelenhi

Even the Cambridge article linked made the direct linkage of stimuli created subconscious processes and reactions needing a reference point in the consciousness when it came to interpreting those reactions and thoughts. Just as some of us had pointed out, more than once too.

That article did not support the theory in the way that the poster wanted it to.

The term cognitive sex has also not been referenced so we can read for ourselves. I take it then that it is either made up or is not widely used enough to get beyond the search engine results.

But I also believe, iirc, that last time I saw this type of explanation from them they used ‘subconscious sex’ and it was explained repeatedly then too how it simply lacks even basic logical coherency. So now it seems we have moved onto ‘cognitive sex’ which is all the same explanation with different terms.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:38

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:36

Transwomen can have all of those things without acting as the oppressor by invading women’s single sex spaces . Trans demands to be the oppressor are rooted in the misogyny you have displayed throughout this thread.

i hope you will take this forward next time.

i know you won’t because your misogyny is so deeply embedded.

Trans women are not oppressing you by asking for their gender to be respected and to be included in public life and public spaces.
This is not misogyny.

There is not one misogynistic word or idea that I have expressed on this thread.

Helleofabore · 27/01/2025 23:41

Did I miss the explanation of exactly what was needed by way of studies to convince lost that male people who have been through male puberty (just for clarity at this time) retained an physical advantage over female people ?

Anything?

Or will any studies be dismissed?

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:44

nocoolnamesleft · 27/01/2025 23:42

Even the BBC recognises that lack of safe toilets exposes women to sexual violence. India Bihar rapes 'caused by lack of toilets' - BBC News

Rape is not caused by a lack of toilets.

Rape is caused by men who commit rape.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:44

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:38

Trans women are not oppressing you by asking for their gender to be respected and to be included in public life and public spaces.
This is not misogyny.

There is not one misogynistic word or idea that I have expressed on this thread.

Edited

Yes they are, they are ignoring the oppression women have faced since the beginning of time based on the realities of our sexed bodies and assumptions about our reproductive abilities. They like all other male bodied people are the oppressors by demanding access to those spaces.

But you are boring me now. You have brought nothing new to the argument.

You have shown you disdain to the lived experience of women.

It is very instructive to the lurkers, I invited you to present your argument. You argued , you demonstrated the problematic misogyny inherent in the trans women who choose to ignore the oppression that women have experience. Ultimately the people you support are the oppressors. They transgress reasonable boundaries of female bodies people . We can all see it for exactly what it is because of the things you post on here.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 23:46

☝Wot she said

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:47

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:44

Yes they are, they are ignoring the oppression women have faced since the beginning of time based on the realities of our sexed bodies and assumptions about our reproductive abilities. They like all other male bodied people are the oppressors by demanding access to those spaces.

But you are boring me now. You have brought nothing new to the argument.

You have shown you disdain to the lived experience of women.

It is very instructive to the lurkers, I invited you to present your argument. You argued , you demonstrated the problematic misogyny inherent in the trans women who choose to ignore the oppression that women have experience. Ultimately the people you support are the oppressors. They transgress reasonable boundaries of female bodies people . We can all see it for exactly what it is because of the things you post on here.

Edited

No misogyny, no disdain.

Just a refusal to accept that trans people’s dignity is incompatible with that of women.

In fact upholding the rights of both groups is vital in dismantling patriarchy.

nocoolnamesleft · 27/01/2025 23:48

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:44

Rape is not caused by a lack of toilets.

Rape is caused by men who commit rape.

But as demonstrated, the lack of toilets makes women more vulnerable to rapists.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:51

And the people supporting the oppressors are the people supporting trump and his regime.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 23:52

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:47

No misogyny, no disdain.

Just a refusal to accept that trans people’s dignity is incompatible with that of women.

In fact upholding the rights of both groups is vital in dismantling patriarchy.

Edited

Is that you Judith?

NotAtMyAge · 27/01/2025 23:52

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:44

Rape is not caused by a lack of toilets.

Rape is caused by men who commit rape.

You replied to that within seconds of it being posted. You can't possibly have read the article. 🙄If you had you would have learned that it's the lack of toilets and the need for women and girls to go outside to defecate, usually at night or in the early morning, that renders them extraordinarily vulnerable to sexual assault from men who would know that this is common practice. Or if you had even stopped to think before replying, you might have worked out why a lack of indoor toilet facilities could make attack more possible. But no, jump in with both feet and get it wrong yet again. You really aren't here to discuss in good faith, are you?

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:52

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:47

No misogyny, no disdain.

Just a refusal to accept that trans people’s dignity is incompatible with that of women.

In fact upholding the rights of both groups is vital in dismantling patriarchy.

Edited

So refusing to accept women’s lived experience based on the oppression we’ve faced due to our sexed bodies and assumptions based about our reproductive capabilities. We are telling you it is incompatible because trans women have male sexed bodies and are part of our oppressor class.

You are denying our lived experience because of misogyny.

Which absolutely proves the point I’ve been making throughout this thread 💯

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:54

You are the patriarchy lost cats 🙄

Not one of us on here has indicated support for Trump.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:56

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:52

So refusing to accept women’s lived experience based on the oppression we’ve faced due to our sexed bodies and assumptions based about our reproductive capabilities. We are telling you it is incompatible because trans women have male sexed bodies and are part of our oppressor class.

You are denying our lived experience because of misogyny.

Which absolutely proves the point I’ve been making throughout this thread 💯

So - because you are a woman, I - another woman- must agree with you that trans people are a problem , otherwise I am a misogynist?

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:57

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:54

You are the patriarchy lost cats 🙄

Not one of us on here has indicated support for Trump.

Really? I thought this whole thread was about his excellent EO supposedly championing the rights of women.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 23:58

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 23:56

So - because you are a woman, I - another woman- must agree with you that trans people are a problem , otherwise I am a misogynist?

Trans people are not the problem male bodied people are the problem whether or not they are trans.

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