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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Algerian boxer filing legal claim over online harrassment

544 replies

GoogleWhacking · 10/08/2024 22:26

news.sky.com/story/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-at-centre-of-olympic-gender-row-files-legal-complaint-over-online-harassment-13195264

She could have put this to bed by sharing DNA tests. I'm struggling to feel sympathy, although it must be horrid.

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Shortshriftandlethal · 12/08/2024 19:28

Fariha31 · 12/08/2024 18:15

I thought including a country currently committing genocide was the biggest stain on these games. but no, its people being mean to a man while he is screwing over women, coz thats worse

I've reported your post. Highly controversial and many would say hateful comment parading itself as fact. there were many countries represented at the Olympic games; many of them are in situations of war and/or conflict but you single one out for such a comment.

annejumps · 14/08/2024 00:37

How kind of Variety to interview a coach who supports IK.

Helleofabore · 14/08/2024 05:34

FFS. That court case is going to be ginormous. And either chilling or a complete farce.

It will certainly keep this Khelif in the media for a long time though. The IOC will have a reminder of what it allowed with its regulations.

Zita60 · 14/08/2024 06:26

wrongthinker · 11/08/2024 23:28

There's no such thing as an XY female.

The people who are fooled by this are insane. And the people who aren't fooled but pretend to believe it are MRAs.

Yes, there is such a thing as an XY female. The SRY gene on the Y chromosome is supposed to kickstart the process of developing male genitalia, internal and external. If it, or other associated genes, don’t work properly then female genitalia develop instead. They’re not always fully functional though.

In Swyer syndrome, the person has XY chromosomes but develops female genitalia, including a uterus. However, the ovaries don’t develop. They have no male advantage in sport.

https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/swyer-syndrome

This wouldn’t be Khelif’s condition though. The reason he was first suspected of being male was because of how powerful he is, injuring women he was fighting and training with.

Speaking to Radio Marca, Rafa Lozano, former Olympic boxer and the Technical Commissioner of the Spanish boxing team, stated that at a training camp in Spain, Khelif caused injuries to every woman he fought.

“They were doing a retreat at Blume and we couldn’t put [Khelif] with anyone. We put [Khelif] with Jennifer Fernandez and it hurt her. Whoever we put [Khelif] with was injured.”

The situation became so dire that the team found it necessary to place Khelif with a male boxer during sparring matches in order to “make it even.”

https://reduxx.info/khelif-is-a-man-female-boxer-who-fought-imane-khelif-speaks-out-claims-algerian-boxing-team-told-her-khelif-had-been-biologically-altered-by-living-in-the-mountains/

fromorbit · 14/08/2024 06:46

French libel laws - case will be heard by a Judge no jury.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0306422014537174#:~:text=Defamation%20cases%20are%20heard%20by,for%20libel%20are%20generally%20low.

It seems French law is very focused on detail. So Khelif's paperwork vs his biological reality may come into play. Really need a French lawyer to judge what might happen here.

Given Khelif failed multiple tests I think describing him as a man in the context of sport seems fair. Though who knows what has more weight in French law it might be the paperwork.

I am wondering if this is a publicity stunt to raise money. Unless the lawyer is very certain.

Gorgonemilezola · 14/08/2024 06:56

Hmmmm. Don't know how the law in this area works but the statements issued by Rowling, Musk and even Trump - to what extent are they 'bullying' and will the French judge look to see if they were just factual statements rather than bullying or harassment?

When you consider the online hate campaign JKR has withstood over the years.........

Does Khelif live in France? Why is he not suing through the Algerian legal system?

EatMoreFibre · 14/08/2024 07:08

I would 100% support Khalif suing for harassment if she has been contacted via her personal email address. However it seems that this lawsuit is more about stopping people from discussing things she wants hushed down.

Bless, it is unwise to go for Elon Musk and JKR. I wonder who is advising her. People who are hyperfocused on JKR tend to be misogynistic MRA.

Thanks for the reduxx link @Zita60

PatatiPatatras · 14/08/2024 07:29

The articles indicate that what they really want is for the named to be investigated. Not necessarily anything else.

Someone knows that the process is the punishment.

TheKeatingFive · 14/08/2024 07:31

PatatiPatatras · 14/08/2024 07:29

The articles indicate that what they really want is for the named to be investigated. Not necessarily anything else.

Someone knows that the process is the punishment.

Exactly

Floisme · 14/08/2024 07:48

Yes, I'm going to hazard a guess that the aim is to shut people up, and I don't just mean JK and Elon.

PriOn1 · 14/08/2024 07:57

TheKeatingFive · 12/08/2024 18:49

His email was divulged - so it could be people targeting him that way

Given JK Rowling has been named, I can’t imagine it will be limited to this factor.

This must surely be a direct challenge against women putting up the kind of defence against men in women’s spaces and sports that JK Rowling is leading, and against Musk and X for enabling it. It feels very much like a further attempt to reintroduce “No debate”.

I spent some time reading what JK Rowling had tweeted this morning and the accusation that Khelif was a cheat was the only thing that gave pause. Most people could get behind the argument that someone who knows they are (technically) male and that they have gone through male puberty is a cheat, if they continue getting into a ring and hitting women. Technically no rules were broken though, so it comes down to whether the accusation of being a cheat is taken literally or figuratively.

I am currently unclear on what the action is. Is it a civil action being brought by Khelif (and lawyers) or is this a case where “harassment” is being treated as a criminal offence?

If anyone understands the law in France and can clarify, I would be very interested to hear.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 14/08/2024 07:58

Have they not heard of the Streisand effect??!!

If what they want is to shut people up then this lawsuit is going to do the opposite.

ScarlettSunset · 14/08/2024 08:00

I'm not much of a fan of Donald Trump but not sure why the comment 'i will keep men out of women's sports' is considered bullying in any way? I would have thought ALL females in sport would welcome this, including any that feel they have been falsely accused of cheating due to some men trying to participate in womens sport.

SinnerBoy · 14/08/2024 08:04

Gorgonemilezola · Today 06:56

Does Khelif live in France? Why is he not suing through the Algerian legal system?

Yes, I wondered about the jurisdiction, too. French libel laws do seem to favour complainants very strongly and people have sued and won on behalf of dead people!

This is not, as far as I've read so far, a libel case; it's a bullying and harassment case.

PriOn1 · 14/08/2024 08:04

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 14/08/2024 07:58

Have they not heard of the Streisand effect??!!

If what they want is to shut people up then this lawsuit is going to do the opposite.

I think you are probably right and your comment does give me hope. Even if the intent is to silence, I think so many people will object that it might end up making it clear that silencing people from saying what they think is no longer possible.

PriOn1 · 14/08/2024 08:06

SinnerBoy · 14/08/2024 08:04

Gorgonemilezola · Today 06:56

Does Khelif live in France? Why is he not suing through the Algerian legal system?

Yes, I wondered about the jurisdiction, too. French libel laws do seem to favour complainants very strongly and people have sued and won on behalf of dead people!

This is not, as far as I've read so far, a libel case; it's a bullying and harassment case.

But is it a civil bullying and harassment case?

SinnerBoy · 14/08/2024 08:08

Sorry, I don't know!

Itdistractsfromthenow · 14/08/2024 08:20

Catsmere · 11/08/2024 01:27

All the frothrage about Poor Imane is the sort of thing only men get. Women don't, least of all from men.

Quite. Nothing shows that these men see TW and IK as men as clearly as the fact that they are standing up for them. These warrior men have been noticeably absent from campaigns and protests on behalf of female women.

Brainworm · 14/08/2024 08:30

Yes, I'm going to hazard a guess that the aim is to shut people up, and I don't just mean JK and Elon

I'm not sure how successful he will be. If it were that easy, surely people would have used French law already to stop people posting shit on X. There are plenty of people with enough money who would have loved to control narratives about them that have gone global because of people posting on Twitter.

I think the only way the attention will subside will be if he fades quietly into the distance. Failing this, the spotlight will be on him again.

Having said that, seeing as he's banned from IBA competitions, I'm assuming he won't be fighting in any internationals other than the Olympics.

Brainworm · 14/08/2024 08:32

Maybe he thinks this will act as smoke and mirrors. If he's able to score some legal points or focus the narrative on related issues that don't require his sex to be revealed, maybe he thinks this will give rise to more people thinking that the claims were a lie?

ditalini · 14/08/2024 08:46

PriOn1 · 14/08/2024 08:06

But is it a civil bullying and harassment case?

No, it's a criminal case I guess similar to the UK malicious communications laws but obviously not necessarily exactly the same. The French judicial system is completely different.

The lawyer is throwing names about to get it into the news, but it sounds like the substance of it is more general than aimed at specific individuals.

Floisme · 14/08/2024 08:51

From the Telegraph article upthread:
'The lawsuit alleging Khelif suffered “aggravated cyber harassment” was filed against unknown persons.
Under French law, that grants the prosecution “the latitude to be able to investigate against all people,” according to Mr Boudi, including people who used pseudonyms online.'

I'm no lawyer, let alone a French one, but to my un-legally trained mind that doesn't sound the same as filing a lawsuit specifically against Rowling and Musk. It sounds very much like an attempt to intimidate anyone from discussing it online. But happy to be corrected.

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