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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Algerian boxer filing legal claim over online harrassment

544 replies

GoogleWhacking · 10/08/2024 22:26

news.sky.com/story/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-at-centre-of-olympic-gender-row-files-legal-complaint-over-online-harassment-13195264

She could have put this to bed by sharing DNA tests. I'm struggling to feel sympathy, although it must be horrid.

OP posts:
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21
Inlaw · 14/08/2024 09:03

Wow! Incredible.

What’s happens if you are found to bring vexatious claims? Ie. Claiming libel when someone tells the truth. Does each individual have to countersue or is this automatic?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2024 09:21

Khelif isn't the only one making one of these online hatred complaints.

Khelif is one of several people involved in these Olympics to have filed a complaint over online bullying. Opening and closing ceremony artistic director Thomas Jolly, executive director Thierry Reboul, DJ Barbara Butch and famed drag queen Nicky Doll have also filed complaints.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/global/olympics-imane-khelif-boxer-complaint-harassment-gender-controversy-1236103878/

Thelnebriati · 14/08/2024 09:25

Blimey.
Compare and contrast the experience of women online, getting rape and death threats, dick pics, and constantly worrying about some innocuous comment getting your entire account deleted.

Catsmere · 14/08/2024 09:25

Does He-Man Imane think he can sue the entire world?

WickedSerious · 14/08/2024 09:32

Catsmere · 14/08/2024 09:25

Does He-Man Imane think he can sue the entire world?

Why not eh?

Go big or go home.

Helleofabore · 14/08/2024 09:33

WickedSerious · 14/08/2024 09:32

Why not eh?

Go big or go home.

Already did it once, it could be said with some success.

WickedSerious · 14/08/2024 09:35

Helleofabore · 14/08/2024 09:33

Already did it once, it could be said with some success.

He's on a roll.

Helleofabore · 14/08/2024 09:35

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2024 09:21

Khelif isn't the only one making one of these online hatred complaints.

Khelif is one of several people involved in these Olympics to have filed a complaint over online bullying. Opening and closing ceremony artistic director Thomas Jolly, executive director Thierry Reboul, DJ Barbara Butch and famed drag queen Nicky Doll have also filed complaints.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/global/olympics-imane-khelif-boxer-complaint-harassment-gender-controversy-1236103878/

It is really chilling.

So totalitarian. No negativity allowed.

Catsmere · 14/08/2024 09:36

I'd love to see him try to sue Putin, or any of the smaller-scale dictators around.

misscockerspaniel · 14/08/2024 09:38

SinnerBoy · 14/08/2024 08:04

Gorgonemilezola · Today 06:56

Does Khelif live in France? Why is he not suing through the Algerian legal system?

Yes, I wondered about the jurisdiction, too. French libel laws do seem to favour complainants very strongly and people have sued and won on behalf of dead people!

This is not, as far as I've read so far, a libel case; it's a bullying and harassment case.

I assume that the case falls under French jurisdiction because the alleged bullying/harassment/whatever happened whilst the boxer was in Paris and was therefore accessing social media/whatever whilst on French soil. And I wonder who thought to bring the case - was it the boxer themself, a lawyer with an eye for publicity, a wealthy benefactor or someone using Khelif as a pawn, in the wider scheme of things.

JeremiahBullfrog · 14/08/2024 09:42

Presumably the French state is under no compulsion to actually prosecute Rowling or anyone. They're a democratic country, not attack dogs for aggrieved foreigners.

RedToothBrush · 14/08/2024 09:43

Floisme · 14/08/2024 08:51

From the Telegraph article upthread:
'The lawsuit alleging Khelif suffered “aggravated cyber harassment” was filed against unknown persons.
Under French law, that grants the prosecution “the latitude to be able to investigate against all people,” according to Mr Boudi, including people who used pseudonyms online.'

I'm no lawyer, let alone a French one, but to my un-legally trained mind that doesn't sound the same as filing a lawsuit specifically against Rowling and Musk. It sounds very much like an attempt to intimidate anyone from discussing it online. But happy to be corrected.

A reminder. I've said this upthread.

The French courts only have jurisdiction over what happens IN France. This can include comments made whilst in France OR comments shared in France.

So this case in effect, isn't about what individuals have said, it's about French jurisdictional issues over the internet.

Khelif can not stop what anyone outside France says even with this case.

What it can force is a big payout and it can force the french government into direct conflict with twitter over their censorship policies.

This is about social media being international and country law being terrority based.

The problem is that by going legal, it gives every government interested in censorship, leverage to then go after social media companies for whatever reason including nefarious ones which allow them to kill all free speech.

It's actually ultimately nothing to do with DSDs and boxing.

Now, forcing American laws over free speech into conflict with French laws over privacy is a hill that Musk will die on and tbh is problematic for the US government generally. The French government will understand that means twitter may end up blocked in France. Musk knows this too but Musk also has cars to blackmail the French government with. And to find allies with elsewhere in Europe to build cars and to try and destroy the french car market in anyway he can.

Musk will also throw money at this case because it's ultimately personal. I wouldn't be surprised at some sort of counter-sue or support for anything to destroy the credibility of Khelif or those who support Khelif and support for a legal case for female boxers to sue the IOC to demonstrate that this is 'a travesty of the far left and inclusion gone too far'.

I very much doubt Musk is upset or concerned. It plays straight to his agenda ahead of the US election. He'll feel it's beneficial to helping elect Trump.

As for JKR, I don't think it is of much consequence to her precisely because a French judge is going to have trouble pinning anything on her because of jurisdiction issues. Her concerns centre on the public interest and legitimacy of women's sport and how this case highlights the problem and there is a lack of due diligence and transparency by sporting bodies. She's just raised that concern and I think it will be difficult to argue it's a privacy or harassment issue because of information already in the public domain due to a previous ban. The coaches admitting there is an issue won't help that case. Even with differences in French law compared with English law, I do think ideas of institutional accountability, women's rights within EU law and what's already public remain present.

I think it's about money though if I'm honest.

The first line would be a payout, and wanting to get a financial settlement before it gets to court.

I think if that's the case, then that could be a misjudgement with Musk willing to see if Khelif ultimately blinks first.

It also does have the effect of as raising Khelifs public profile so that generates alternate money streams for Khelif in the future. With official boxing now closed to Khelif (they are - we just haven't got this written up yet), the coaching team will be looking for alternatives. Won't someone think of all the sobbing victim interview fees? Won't someone think of the alternative sport live streaming fees?

Either way, I don't think it will stop harassment of Khelif. But this case isn't about harassment, privacy or DSDs and we should make sure we don't look at it through that lens.

RedToothBrush · 14/08/2024 09:46

JeremiahBullfrog · 14/08/2024 09:42

Presumably the French state is under no compulsion to actually prosecute Rowling or anyone. They're a democratic country, not attack dogs for aggrieved foreigners.

Quite.

Is there even a case to answer here?

I don't believe there is one for JKR as an individual.

I do believe there's probably one over twitter itself but not Musk individually.

And even then...

Helleofabore · 14/08/2024 09:48

I also think that neither Musk or JK will settle. I think that they will push for this to go to judgement.

RethinkingLife · 14/08/2024 09:51

After the IOC's mostly successful imposition of their media guidelines on a global scale, why wouldn't Khelif believe it's possible to silence Social Media?

TheKeatingFive · 14/08/2024 09:55

I'm no lawyer, let alone a French one, but to my un-legally trained mind that doesn't sound the same as filing a lawsuit specifically against Rowling and Musk.

It isn't. It's an appeal to the French authorities to look into harassment online - Musk and JK are referred to as names to look into, but Khelif's team have no say in who they actually investigate. I cannot imagine what the authorities would hope to get out of investigating JKR, so I expect they'll just ignore that.

It's at least 90% grandstanding and attempts to intimidate people who are talking about it.

lcakethereforeIam · 14/08/2024 09:58

I think it's about money, that's why the people with the deepest pockets have been named. Someone upthread said a bunch of other names from the opening ceremony have also filed complaints. I wonder if some French equivalent of no-win, no-fee has gone trawling for complainants looking for a big payday.

TheKeatingFive · 14/08/2024 10:00

lcakethereforeIam · 14/08/2024 09:58

I think it's about money, that's why the people with the deepest pockets have been named. Someone upthread said a bunch of other names from the opening ceremony have also filed complaints. I wonder if some French equivalent of no-win, no-fee has gone trawling for complainants looking for a big payday.

The case is not about suing them directly.

Naming them is just shit stirring. And pretty much irrelevant to the case actually being filed.

RedToothBrush · 14/08/2024 10:02

TheKeatingFive · 14/08/2024 09:55

I'm no lawyer, let alone a French one, but to my un-legally trained mind that doesn't sound the same as filing a lawsuit specifically against Rowling and Musk.

It isn't. It's an appeal to the French authorities to look into harassment online - Musk and JK are referred to as names to look into, but Khelif's team have no say in who they actually investigate. I cannot imagine what the authorities would hope to get out of investigating JKR, so I expect they'll just ignore that.

It's at least 90% grandstanding and attempts to intimidate people who are talking about it.

Yep.

You also have the following issue: Musk makes a comment on America only twitter about Khelif. This isn't on French twitter or made in France. But this then known internationally. Do the French newspapers report because it's a global public interest story or does it remain off limits because of harassment laws?

It's effectively unworkable because of The Streisand Effect.

English law does reflect and recognise this issue in terms of being in a position of public scrutiny.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 14/08/2024 10:06

lcakethereforeIam · 14/08/2024 09:58

I think it's about money, that's why the people with the deepest pockets have been named. Someone upthread said a bunch of other names from the opening ceremony have also filed complaints. I wonder if some French equivalent of no-win, no-fee has gone trawling for complainants looking for a big payday.

I agree. I think this is about Khelif squeezing every last drop of cash out of this while they can. After all they can't compete internationally in anything other than the Olympics so their boxing career is pretty much over.

Catsmere · 14/08/2024 10:09

I would love to see this woman-beating grifter get his arse handed to him on a plate, legally and financially.

TheKeatingFive · 14/08/2024 10:13

It's also VERY telling that this is not about defamation, He can't go there and he knows it.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 14/08/2024 10:18

Is this even within the French courts jurisdiction (IANAL so maybe not right term)?

JKR is tweeting in the UK about an Algerian who is temporarily in France for an event. How can French law apply to JKR?

duc748 · 14/08/2024 10:26

So what would be a 'win' for Khelif here? His desired result? That the French state (tax-payer) chuck some money at him? Again, I don't really see the end-game here, other than to garner a bit of sympathy with "poor me".

Inlaw · 14/08/2024 10:34

So it's just lawyers be lawyering. Well that will be fun for them 🤣