Help me present evidence to my son

[AlbertaWildRose]

My DS is 18 and heavy into the TWAW belief. He thinks JK Rowling is a despicable human being for her position and thinks that women should have no problem with all of this, and it's all just "scare-mongering" to say otherwise. Whenever I try to talk to him about this I end up getting too emotional to be rational. I really want to present him with evidence that this movement is not good for women - please help direct me to some good resources. Thank you.

If TWAW is true then surely he is ok with his girlfriend / future partner being a TW? (Assuming he is straight).

Exactly. I just wish they would come out and say that rather than using flowery language and skirting around the issue.

Your prejudice is being reinforced by one example you are not comfortable with.
Can your HR provide some training for you and your team?

So not being comfortable with male people in womens bathrooms and wanting women to represent women when discussing womens issues is not prejudice. And the HR comment is just patronising. Women don't need HR to come tell them their lived experience and feelings take second place to a man's, even if that man feels like a non-man.

I think it is normal for our children to disagree with us and the things that we value.

It's often about exploring their own beliefs and finding where they match and where they differ.

Any discussion I have with my children (and adult children) is with respect and knowledge that they have the right to make choices and hold beliefs that are different to my own.

I use questions to explore their own beliefs and I listen to what they are saying.

I state what I believe, acknowledge that they may disagree with this and see if there is any common ground -there often is.

What I believed as a child, adolescent, and young adult is not what I believe now. I have changed my mind several times and it is quite possible that I will change it several more times in my lifetime.

Respectful relationships are vital between all of us. It can be hard though when strong feelings and strong beliefs are involved. I do struggle with this.

He has already done his research and is surrounded with access to information as are you. If he presented you with his information regarding his views would it change your mind? . Hes arguing with you and your opinion just as you are arguing with his. His opinion is just as valid as yours

The value of his opinion counts less though than the value of his mother's. It is not his spaces that are now open to everybody, it is not his rights that are deemed unnecessary. Men don't get to dictate to women what they should or should not feel comfortable with.

You can argue, you can agree to disagree but in the end not his rights, not his consent. I would tell him this and leave it at that.

99%

you are doing the cause of protecting women and girls no favours by idiotic statements

99% of women’s abuse of men goes unreported

challenge that or prove your statement

if a man is going to abuse women using trans as a cover can you give 3 examples?

Then I would ask if 300 or 3000 incidents would be enough to condemn millions of transgender people all round the world.

I would tell you then that abusers are going to abuse. It’s like a male bomber wearing a hijab disguise. It’s not the other men to blame. It’s him.

Recommend that you direct him to stories by detransitioners. They explain how confused and duped they were. Discuss in horrible detail the surgeries they underwent and how they are now infertile, non-orgasmic, and have to dilate the wound that they call their "vagina" daily. is a good place to start

This

Thank you! I will definitely show this to him.

I think we may be at this point too. I agree it is heartbreaking.

Thank you for all your responses. I'm not going to ridicule my son and show him contempt, as someone suggested, but I appreciate the more balanced suggestions. It's a very difficult subject to talk about with him - I think the best approach for now is to leave it alone.

Show him this

fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences/

Lies. JKR has been deeply abusive and transphobic towards many individuals and against trans people especially trans women generally

cant spend time with my trans friends and see them as anything other than women though, its just how i've known them and honestly despite the messages here i do think we have common ground and i do think "womanhood" can include this very very tiny group. Im not really swayed on that bit.

I'm not swayed that you think your male friends should be exempted from having basic respect for women and girls.

I'm going to disagree with you on that.

I like the reversal here - this is exactly the tactics of TRAs.

Since these are the tactics that TRAs use I am surprised you think they do not work.

Can you give some specific examples please?

seems harsh... i wouldn't consider myself a TRA and im not sure they'd consider me an ally either?? Where did that come from, do you think ive used those tactics here?

I think it's the unwillingness to say whether you support women when they say they do not want biological men in their single sex spaces with no exceptions full stop.

i dont believe i've said that, and i wouldnt be friends with people who didnt respect women and girls.
You dont have to agree with me, but what actually is the point of this comment? we disagree. Ive been very open in this chat about ways that i've been challenged and i think ive generally engaged to know the issues better. So whats the point of this?

I'll try one more time.

Do you support women when we say we do not want biological men, however they present or identify, and regardless of what certificates they have, in our single sex spaces?

You dont have to agree with me, but what actually is the point of this comment? we disagree.

Because I find you and other women like you extraordinarily naive about this subgroup of the male sex, and happy to throw other women and girls under the bus just because your male friends have convinced you they are women. They are not, and your view is the minority one, not mine.

You are happy for males to ignore the feelings of women and girls because it makes you feel better about yourself, as "inclusive".

I don't expect my Nigel to join us in the ladies, so I don't want anyone else's, thanks.

What do your MTF friends think about the many women saying no to them, incidentally?

You beat me to it . Would OPS son be happy to have a relationship with a trans woman?