Help me present evidence to my son

[AlbertaWildRose]

My DS is 18 and heavy into the TWAW belief. He thinks JK Rowling is a despicable human being for her position and thinks that women should have no problem with all of this, and it's all just "scare-mongering" to say otherwise. Whenever I try to talk to him about this I end up getting too emotional to be rational. I really want to present him with evidence that this movement is not good for women - please help direct me to some good resources. Thank you.

Find Alexa Blake on YouTube.

Alexa is a trans woman and always says, "I'm a trans woman, so I'm a biological male".

If an actual real living 24/7 365 days a year trans woman says, "I am not a woman" who the hell is he to disagree?

I will do Alexa the curtesy of calling her, her because she is a down to earth person.

She went to pick her nephew up from school, the teacher asked the child if he knew who was picking him up and the nephew said, "my uncle 'old male name' over there" so was basically dead named and misgendered and thought it was funny.

You might not be able to, and if he thinks JK Rowling is despicable, I assume he thinks you're despicable as well?

This isn't just about biology. It's about what men think women deserve, and sadly it seems like your son doesn't believe women should be entitled to their own spaces.

You could tell him about the prize for finding anything JKR has written or said that is transphobic.

Such a good point. Women only ever get what men think they deserve.

They weren't happy with equality, let's face it, so now they're ruined it for us by saying they are women too and taking what we fought for.

You need to stomp this out before it goes any further. You actually have power in this situation. Sit him down and make him read this entire thread. Make him watch videos. Then you need to humiliate him and his pathetic worldview.

I'm sorry if this sounds dramatic, but your DS is at a crossroads and as a parent it's your responsibility to make sure he picks the path you approve of.

Make this a huge deal. Talk to him about it non stop. At breakfast, at dinner, while you're giving him lifts to places. Make participation in your life conditional on understanding that TWA not W, and never can be. Drive a wedge between him and his social groups - that's where most of this comes from. Confiscating mobile phones is the way to go.

Be prepared for things to get bad. He may try to cut you off for a while. If this happens, so be it. There are more important things in life, and preventing women from being r*ped is one of them.

You got this!

I'm sorry if this sounds dramatic, but your DS is at a crossroads and as a parent it's your responsibility to make sure he picks the path you approve of.

I strongly disagree with this advice.

Her son is 18. He is an adult, and has the right to decide his views for himself. A parent cannot demand that their adult children "pick the path [they] approve of".

A parent can try to persuade them of their own views, but ultimately, it's up to the adult child to decide. Forcing the issue as you suggest would almost certainly achieve nothing, destroying the mother-son relationship without changing his mind.

This is ridiculous he is 18

If he lives under the OP's roof then he needs to follow her rules.

I think @AdultHumanEmail gave some really good advice there, pussyfooting around isn't going to cut it.

This is about beliefs, not rules of the house.

Rules would be about who empties the dishwasher - she can require compliance with those.

But requiring that he believe the same as she does on every issue? No.

Can a husband require his wife to have the same policitical views as him, and vote the same way as him? I think everyone here would say no. So why should a mother require her adult son to have the same beliefs as her? If she was a practising catholic, could she require him to be a practising catholic as well?

This is mental. I'm hardline transwomen are men no argument but this is bonkers.

This is nothing to do with politics, it's to do with the safety of women & girls. If my son believed that men have the right to rape and assault women & girls he'd be out on his ear.

There is a difference between believing that transwomen are women and should be allowed in women's safe spaces, and believing that men have the right to rape and assault women and girls.

I don't think even the most hardline of TRAs believe the latter. They may believe in things that will increase the danger to women of being raped (ie allowing TW into women's safe spaces), although they mostly don't see the increased danger. But they don't believe that gives anyone the right to actually rape women.

As mothers it is not our role to make sure our DC follow views or paths of which we approve. We can guide, and give examples, and show where opinions may differ. Reading this read would almost certainly not change the mind of a young person fed on TWAW. Only time, and experience can do that.

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish apologies if this has already been covered because I don't have time to go through the full thread, but I'm really interested how you can, as a scientist, explain that transwomen are women? What's the science?

There is no science, outside clown fish and avocados. Last time I looked I was not an avocado and nor was anyone I know. It's scientific bsht, with no foundation. DSDs also have nothing to do with it - and are sex-determined as well.

I don't know about the sex of avocados (apparently cucumbers also come in male and female, something to do with the seeds) and I don't personally believe that TWAW but @Littlepinkstarsbyradish seems to willing to discuss differing points of view and I really want to understand more about one that doesn't make sense to me.

I'm sorry if this is ignorant but for me it just keeps coming back this.

If a trans woman is a woman then can a woman be a trans woman?

No because only a biological man can be a trans woman.

I'm sorry if this is ignorant but for me it just keeps coming back this.

If a trans woman is a woman then can a woman be a trans woman?

No because only a biological man can be a trans woman.

I understand that, but there is no scientific evidence for gender ideology.

Exactly. You've articulated it perfectly.

I agree! That's why I'm trying to understand @Littlepinkstarsbyradish point of view, who says she (assumption) takes a scientific standpoint which to me seems to be at odds with the available science! Sex and gender used to be used interchangeably to mean the same thing (biological sex), now they are used to mean different things. Someone's innate sense of being (which in part includes their sense of being male or female) has no scientific basis that I am aware of, it just is. But it doesn't change the underlying biology. In my view anyway.

It doesn't, she's just decided based on a whole host of stereotypical assumptions that a male person who decided they were a "woman" at the age of 55 must be telling the truth and therefore be catered to, because who would want to do that if they didn't "feel" it? In reality we know there are a range of motivations for males to identify as women, some of them not particularly pleasant for women to have to deal with.

In one of @Littlepinkstarsbyradish 's earlier posts she says:

"im not sure we actually differ that much, except that my societal definition of "womanhood" is wider so i don't have a massive issue with referring to trans women as "she" and including them in a gender (not sex) grouping?"

So, I think that there won't be any discussion of science here, and probably an acceptance that "biological" sex is real and unchanging. It seems more like a social construct argument - that "woman" is independent of "female" and consists of behaviours, presentation, beliefs that make someone a woman, whether they are male or female. So a male person could be labelled as a woman if they meet enough of these cultural criteria, or perhaps some specific ones that are considered more important than others.

Of course, for the rest of us who simply define "woman" as an adult human female, this is a nonsense. It also is based on stereotypes and is clearly regressive. I don't see how anyone could hold to this belief if they examined it for more than a few minutes. But @Littlepinkstarsbyradish has also explained that she has strong personal drivers to believe this and not to upset the apple cart regarding the transwomen she is long time friends with.

An inner sense of being male or female just isn't either - most people have no such sense! Gender ideology is talking about personality, tastes etc as though they had anything to do with sex.

sorry, i stepped away from this for a bit

Yeah - i think I'm treating gender and sex separately, and so i don't believe that trans people can change sex but i also think that the labels "woman" and "man" have both biological and societal meaning so i have no problem including trans people in those labels when used generally day to day.

I also have some issues with gender being entirely based on stereotypes because that doesnt fit with what ive seen from my friends. (Although i will say that my trans friend has presented more stereotypically "female" since transitioning because it makes others more comfortable around her and she gets less street abuse so thats perhaps another factor to consider)