Is this a safe place to ask a question without being flamed?

[StrumpersPlunkett]

I have a question relating to transgender issues and working through my thoughts on things but it feels like a conversation I am only allowed to have in my head.
Is this a safe place to talk it through?

The thing is though they are under threat but it's trans ideology that's the threat. Homosexuals are criticised for their "genital preference" ie being homosexual. Trans women talk of the cotton ceiling (lesbians knickers) like it's oppressive when a lesbian doesn't want to have sex with them. Young gay children are led down the path of transition when really they would have just grown up to be gay.

The forced teaming of LGB with the TQ+ is I think doing damage to acceptance of homosexuality. People feel uncomfortable or grossed out by the overly sexual displays by this ideology and don't see it as gender ideology they see it as LGBTQ+

You put women and girls first OP.

The starting point for any Woman who thinks she's a feminist should be how this impacts the most vulnerable women and girls in society.

So whilst you might consent to males in your spaces you need to think about how you supporting that impacts women in prison, women in refuges, disabled women who need intimate care givers, women in hospital.

It's not about you as you go around your life, it's about the wider picture.

Quite! The morphing of LGB into 'Queerness' with its emphasis on fetish and highly sexualised display turns many people off.

And I've totally had it with drag. At today's Pride event - the city's main touristic area is being taken over. This is an area of the city visited by people of all demographics, including families. Having drag and sexual display force fed onto visitors is not doing 'the community' any favours.

One of the drag queens who will be 'performing' goes by the name of 'Filla Crack'

That’s grim, it’s reducing women to an orifice to be fucked 🤮 how can that possibly be considered suitable for children

Agree. Profit and other male gains

@DrBlackbird thank-you

It's telling children what's permitted (boys) and required (girls), isn't it?

(edit for typos)

This.

OP, I'd suggest reading some of the articles by Dennis Noel Kavanagh, the lead of the Gay Men's Network. He discusses the homophobia towards LGB people from the TQ and queer movement clearly and in depth, and his background is a legal one.

Not to mention who gets to do, and who gets to be used.

Who gets to take and who has to give.

Who is the active seeker of pleasure and who is just the receptacle and prop.

OP, you need to consider that it's not about you as an individual and your trans friend as an individual.

It's about women and girls as a sex class (and please remember that the only thing we all have in common is our body type - we are not defined by feminity, or oppression, or clothing, or sexuality, or toy preferences); and it's about transwomen as a sub-group of the male sex class, with all the evidence suggesting that their behaviour parallels that of other males. And there you will find your answers.

> *women don't want your male friends in their loos, changing rooms etc.

I did not say women wanted men in there.

I do not want a man in the loos with me unless it is at home. They would seem out of place, and I should wonder why they were not using the gents.

My point is that I would not feel threatened in most situations.

I would not feel threatened, or be bothered by a trans-women, in the loo. I have not knowingly met one in there because I might not even notice.

That's lovely for you. What do you suggest happens to the women who cannot use a mixed sex space, regardless of how a male person identifies or how lovely he may be?

And if it's a known fact that some women can no longer use a women's space if it's made mixed sex, is it ok so long as a man tricks them into believing they're in a single sex space?

Those men you 'didn't notice' - is it ok that they are trying to deceive women into using a mixed sex space they would not knowingly consent to?

What about situations such as a woman needing care and examination, for example following a rape, who has asked specifically (and understandably) for a woman hcp? Is it ok for a man to go and do it knowing she hasn't consented but that he may be able to deceive her?

Are women who find that a man hid a spy camera in the women's loos entitled to feel vulnerable, threatened, or bothered? because they do, and when it's discovered it is treated as a crime and prosecuted.

That's just a camera, not an actual man in the loos with you, next door cubicle, no way out except past him. Knowing how many creepy men find women's toilets and the things women do in them exciting.

Any woman who doesn't feel bothered, threatened, and vulnerable when men start using the women's loos is very naive indeed - and lacking in experience of male behavior.

And our point is it's not just about you and your personal perceptions. It is about the rights of our sex class as a whole, and how one woman who has decided "well I'm not bothered" does not get to consent for their removal on behalf of other women who are. There are very good reasons for that also, as has been explained clearly on the thread.

It is also very much not just "about toilets" as we have previously pointed out.

It's about single sex spaces and services in certain circumstances, and whether those who handwave them away or claim anyone who wishes to retain them is a "bigot" or "phobe" is actually historically or socially literate enough to understand why women fought to have them. If you think the right to single sex spaces should be dismantled, then at least give justification why beyond "I don't mind because I'm cooler than you are, you bigoted hags."

'a trans-women'

again

but in the same post 'a man'.

'a woman' in not permitted to exist even when she's a man being pretendy

How many times did you use the personal pronoun ‘l’ in that post?

It is fine to feel that either you or your mum don’t care. So you’re free to invite any person into your own home’s toilet. With respect, it’s more than being just about how you feel because there’s a danger in universalising the personal.

A phrase someone else used on another thread is a good one to think about, which is: consent is not transferable.

So you are not threatened and feel okay about men dressed as women in women’s loos. I’d probably wouldn’t feel ‘threatened’ either though I’d likely feel uncomfortable.

But neither of us has the right to consent on behalf of other women. For example, what if another woman does feel threatened? A woman who’s been sexually or physically assaulted? Or a woman from another religion walks into the women’s toilet and sees a TW washing their hands at the sink? Do they have a say? Do they get to choose to consent or not?

Hopefully you see that thread is not a cess pool of hatred but rather just posters raising these points of concern for women’s safety, dignity and privacy.

Women have been told that if they go into the ladies at work and come straight out again because a transwoman is in there, they will be disciplined for transphobia. This means that women can't even choose when they use the toilets in their workplace to try and avoid sharing with the opposite sex.

We've heard from women who have had transwomen colleagues who mysteriously seem to need the toilet whenever they do. Can you imagine how threatening it would be to be followed in every single time? The women who have reported this were warned about their transphobia, the man following them is supported by their employer to keep doing it.

That is really grim.

Trans is the most effective and clear, so I'd start with that.

WELL SAID!

> But neither of us has the right to consent on behalf of other women

Yep. You are all right about this. None of us have the right to wave anybodies rights away.

We just watched the Womens' 400m FreeF, and the Men 400m FreeF on the tellie. The men did around 1.7m/s, and the women did around 1.6m/s. This is a big difference in elite sport.

As for shelters, or intimate exams, then I thought that if a women requested female to exam them, then we'd get a female. I would not expect to see a male. But again how would I know if she was trans and passed. How could you know? What are going to do? Have chromosome test kits at the door?

/delete because I misread a post.

Okay, suppose the person is a transwoman who does not pass. Should I be permitted to refuse to let that person examine me?