Is this a safe place to ask a question without being flamed?

[StrumpersPlunkett]

I have a question relating to transgender issues and working through my thoughts on things but it feels like a conversation I am only allowed to have in my head.
Is this a safe place to talk it through?

And isn't it curious how "living as a woman" never seems to mean doing all the shit jobs that fall to women, taking the mental load, and cannot include the ingrained, almost subconscious caution around men, the much larger, stronger and more aggressive sex? The very idea that a man can "live as a woman" is a blatant example of his male entitlement and obliviousness.

I do wonder about actual numbers of things...

We would very much like accurate statistics but attempts to do research have been consistently blocked by trans activists..

How many of those have had gender reassignment surgery?

Indications are that few of the middle aged male identifying as transgender have had gender reassignment surgery and that within that group many that have had surgery retain male genitalia however I don’t have studies to point you to.

How many women are assaulted by men presenting as men in women only spaces? vs men presenting as women? - Is there actually a significant risk? (This is not to take away someone’s right to feel uncomfortable with it!)

Those like myself who have been raped by a man who dressed in women’s clothing have almost nowhere where they can talk about it. I couldn’t face telling the police as I felt too humiliated and embarrassed by that aspect and feared I would not be believed. I would be too afraid of trans activists intimidation to state what happened to me other than anonymously.

What percentage of women and girls raped/assaulted by men presenting women do you think would make it a significant risk? And what percentage do you think is an acceptable risk?

Do you think the current inability to challenge male presenting men in women's spaces increases the risk?

I appreciate these are hard and uncomfortable questions, please give them some thought and stay around for the discussion.

There are threads on ‘This never happens’ with cases. Actual research would be better but as stated above attempts to do that research have been blocked.

In one of the few areas where statistics are available there are disturbing MoJ figures on the percentage of transwomen who are in prison for sexual offences vs the rest of the male prison population. Hopefully there’s a poster that can point you at those. These figures are now becoming distorted by the recording some of those male sex offenders as women.

Yes. So true.

Living as a woman means (in all cultures) doing a tonne of shitwork and being exploited and used by a parasitic dominant male class. All whilst being ogled, harassed, assaulted and much more and worse.

And it's just adding insult to injury to pretend that it's anything else.

( Typos above, but you get the idea)

Ah a scolding, women must submit and lay down and be walked over by men. How very original.

There is nothing hateful or bigoted about females having female only spaces, services and sports that exclude all males in fact it is hateful and bigoted to want to remove that.

And adding even more insult (and, frequently, more injury) for men to LARP as women.

And adding even more insult (and, frequently, more injury) for men to LARP as women.

With the icing on the shit cake when they then claim to be the most oppressed and vulnerable.

Yes, all of this is why I have even less time for NATWALT than NAMALT. The concept of a man "being" or "living as" a woman is by definition misogynistic, whether we're talking about the stereotype of a gay man with internalised homophobia or the more common heterosexual man with paraphilias. Men have been getting off on cross-dressing for centuries - millennia, probably. Whatever their motivation, it's harmful to women.

AHH well if we are playing the I asked Mummy game then yes mine does object to men accessing women bathrooms. She is elderly, disabled and was once assaulted in a bathroom by a man. So it's 1-1.

I asked my mum if she felt vulnerable in a toilet because she was a women, and apart from asking me if I was drunk, said no. Cubicles have locked doors. She asked me if I had felt the same, and replied Never.

You're either a man and it's a sample of one, or a woman and it's a sample of two. Who cares. Polling shows you are in theI minority, women don't want your male friends in their loos, changing rooms etc.

Please don’t let @0Oo derail the discussion. Yes it’s hurtful to share a painful experience and almost immediately have a poster declare we’re bigots and hilarious but we’ve heard the scolding for having ‘unapproved’ opinions and the ‘my mum agrees with me and she’s a woman so you’re all wrong’ before and it’s clear they aren’t here for a discussion.

Yes, quite.

There's no such thing as 'trans' - it's just colonisation of women by men for massive profit.

Yep, it's a massive con. And plenty of evidence that it is so, for those who have the intelligence to look (oh, and understand it's about a lot more than "toilets"). I think a lot of people—including teens thank god —are starting to question it, mainly because TRAs keep overstepping the mark. Also the number of pervs being outed (Mr Beast's mate being the latest) is getting frankly embarrassing for the "but these are such vulnerable soft people and definitely not like other men" lobby, given it's quite obviously a (very male, very offender) pattern of behaviour.

There's no such thing as 'trans' - it's just colonisation of women by men for massive profit.

Bingo. And even here, and the one radfem site I'm familiar with, we have to tiptoe around or the site owners will descend on us, delete posts, ban users.

So many young people who socialise in or around the 'queer community' now have it drilled into them that they must be 'trans allies'. and for many who happen to be lesbians, in particular, it is just a short push further to imagining that they too are 'trans'. Especially when 'being trans' is so on trend and cool, and being a lesbian just isn't queer enough

And the intimate association of the LGB with the TQ+ creates an intense sense of family feeling and shared cause...to the extent that people who are same sex attracted now believe, and repeat the idea, that gay rights are "going backwards".

'Pride' happens today in my city, and this is going to be one of the big talking points...how LGBTQ+ rights are under threat and actually going into reverse. I've got a young gay nephew coming today, and who is going along to a book signing at the event. He's 16. This is the environment he is being brought up in and exposed to. One in which he will be led to feel his rights and acceptability are on the line, when actually gay rights are as strong as they've ever been.

OP (and anyone else interested) if you'd like a guided tour round some of the feminism literature supported by small group discussion, you might be interested in the courses that Jane Clare Jones runs, eg

https://feminist-thought.org/course-1-part-1/

I did an earlier version of this one and it was great - lots to read and really thought provoking.

Yeah,think of the menz FFS.

The sufferers of that colonization include the very young women who for many reasons are uncomfortable with the expectations the colonizers have of them in terms of appearance, presentation, accessibility, and who go over to the dark side themselves, even if they manage to avoid the horrors of mastectomy, toxic hormones etc

Another thing, I'm reluctant to criticise anyone else's grammar and spelling for the obvious reasons (I'm not even happy about those 'ize' spellings the checker advised) but has anyone else noted how frequently the GC posters write 'a women'? It's almost a tell. I've never noticed 'a men'.

I won't be doing a course but I wanted to endorse the recommendation of JCJ. I find her a very clear thinker and explainer.

Consent is a big one as the first response lays out very well - whilst you may have things you are comfortable with or not, other women and especially teen girls like my daughter are stating very clearly they don't want men in their "safe spaces." - which are places where they have a right to be kept physically safe.

Pronouns have become a hotly contested subject - compelled speech is the opposite of free speech and it does have a negative effect on the reporting of accurate crime and health statistics.

The thread managed 5 pages of thoughtful, calm and considered posts explaining their responses and reasoning to the OP so I agree no derailing but instead continue the conversation.

@NameChangedForThisDiscussion so sorry for your horrific experience. Sometimes it is just so shit being female.

I am so concerned about the explosion of trans identities in her friendship group. Due to the prevailing wind, I cannot even speak freely with my DC. It is a tightrope walk of not alienating them and pushing them towards 'well meaning' and 'kind' people that are all too ready to help. I think there are far too many people with 'no skin in the game' that mean well, that want to be inclusive, but who are throwing, mainly, young girls under the bus.

Likewise, I walk the same tightrope. Thank god for Isla Bryson who opened my DCs eyes that not all TW are just being their authentic selves. Though unfortunately my DCs are still inclined to hand over women’s sporting accolades to men. It’s the influence of many friends of the DCs who are swept up in this identity tsunami in acritical response of inclusivity. Though I don’t blame them. Boundaries have been gradually pushed for years by men with agendas. One friend went as far as asking their GP for CSHs who apparently expressed bafflement. Shortly after that DC met a nice boy and is completely happy in a heteronormative relationship but what if the GP was a GI advocate as so many seemingly are and had practiced affirmation?

My wish is for this thread to go to every Labour politician ‘ally’ to better understand the issues and experiences and concerns of women as individuals and as mothers.

As others have said. It is not anti/pro trans. It is anti/pro women’s rights.

I've never noticed 'a men'.

Interesting, isn't it?