"Violence against women a ‘national emergency’ in England and Wales"

[Omlettes]

Jesus Wept!
"National Police Chiefs’ Council analysis reveals 2m women a year estimated to be victims of male violence"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/23/violence-against-women-national-emergency-england-wales-police

Harriet Wistrich has written about it in Unherd

https://unherd.com/2024/07/will-the-police-ever-protect-women/

Thoughtful as ever. I think we all recognise the following across a range of public services, including health caree.

So, what can be done? Baroness Casey highlighted in her review a phenomenon she called “initiativitis”, where the police are constantly announcing new initiatives but don’t follow through — that is to say, nothing changes. I responded to the review on behalf of the legal charity that I founded in 2016, the Centre for Women’s Justice: “The only way forward to restore the rule of law is to start re-imagining how policing can serve all citizens.” I specified one of the critical issues with policing, namely “the culture of loyalty which militates against self-criticism, against whistle-blowing and allows collusion and silence”. The path to change would start with “hearing the voices of survivors and others at the hard edge of policing… There needs to be real accountability built into the system for those failing to address the problems and there must be adequate powers to ensure recommendations are followed.” Until then, “nothing will change”.

We need more female voices on this not fewer. More stats, analysis and view points from women who have lived it.

Then we can talk about the issue and stop ignoring women as the pp did.

I hope the initial look at the subject brings more women to this

We need to stop talking and start doing. Deeds not words.

People will push back on this for a variety of reasons as shown below

It’s relevant to women and girls here and we should take into account women’s voices from their cultures

More on this story. I wonder how they will bring down the rate of vawg when they won’t even prosecute the most obvious of cases. There have been other cases where a person has died following a single punch to the head because of an underlying health condition and they are convicted of manslaughter with all the mitigating circumstances heard in court. Will “they-had-a-health-condition” become a reason not to prosecute in domestic violence situations? I cannot see the logic of not prosecuting in this case. What sort of message does it send out?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/girl-11-killed-indefensible-punch-29618832?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I mean one punch deaths are so common there’s even an awareness raising campaign about it!

https://www.lincs.police.uk/police-forces/lincolnshire-police/areas/campaigns/campaigns/one-punch-can-kill/

Agree the oversensitivity around Islamism is extraordinary in the circumstances given how antithetical the religion is to womens rights in theory and in practise globally.
I would argue there is the same hypersensitivity as with tra and the same kind of manipulation.
Its irrational and very dangerous.
Accusations of islamophobia when protecting womens rights should be viewed with as much caution as accusations of transphobia.
Its extraordinary how we let men gaslight us from all sides.

There is always an excuse and justification for millenia of deadly misogyny.
And religion is the societal tool to control us.

Exactly well said and there are many similarities in argument and the posters defending both

Yes, we have no problem calling out Christian fundamentalism for its sexism and homophobia.
Its a kind of reverse racism and
we denied Rotheram etc on that basis.

Victoria Smith has another excellent article in the Critic

https://thecritic.co.uk/how-can-we-talk-about-male-violence-now/

I wasn't sure if this might go better in the terrorism thread.

She discusses all the things we know exist in these societies from state sanctioned child marriage (which is not taboo); "honour"-based violence and murder; women being forced to marry their rapists; not being allowed to even ride a bike because of the risk of "losing your virginity" because a girl's virginity is her primary value.

Oh yes, you can find all this and more in many white American Christian “societies” too. Girls married off at 11,12,13,14 to their father’s same age friend, as child marriage is legal in many states with parental permission (coercion). “Shotgun” weddings also being forced to marry your rapist, which only didn’t happen if you managed to keep the rape a secret and did not fall pregnant from the rape. Women/girls running away and being dragged back and murdered as an example to other women/girls. Similar beliefs around riding bikes, & using tampons.

Some of “these” societies are not as foreign as you might think.

Ok, well this supports the earlier studies I have posted showing that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes in the U.K. than British people.

As Arabella posted
”'There were 10,435 (3,578 remand, 6,486 sentenced and 371 non-criminal) foreign nationals held in custody on 30 June 2024; representing 12% of the total prison population.”

Immigrants are 12% of the prison population but are 23% of the general population, or 15.6m out of 67m (see below), this means that British are almost twice as likely to commit a crime that carries a prison sentence.

”In the year ending June 2021, the non-UK-born population was an estimated 9.6 million and the non-British population was an estimated 6.0 million”= 15.6m

“The UK population at mid-year 2021 was estimated to be 67.0 million”

• I did not call you a racist, I said some of your views are xenophobic
• No, those are not my views, at least not in the way that you think. Everyone is affected by socialisation everywhere, but the way we are affected isn’t always to conform blindly. Different societies are different ways often due to top down coercion and pressure. Most people that leave those countries (immigrate here) often do so specifically because they disagree with those societies treatment of women and want better for their wives and daughters. So it is, my view that most of the immigrants come here do not want to recreate what they were fleeing from in the first place. That is my opinion as to why there is no proof of immigrants being more criminal or violent towards women & girls than British.

Going back to the CSEW and looking at Domestic Violence report ending March 2023 (latest release) we see

1. Domestic violence against women and girls has steadily decreased since 2008 (don’t have time to go further back), from 11% to 7% reporting anonymously having experienced DV, but it’s enough to say there is no new crisis/epidemic of DV in the U.K.

2. Ethnicity isn’t a very good proxy for religion, but you’d think if Islam made DV more common, then you would expect a higher % of the majority Muslim ethnicities to be anonymously reporting DV than you would a % of the white ethnicity who tend to not be Muslim as often. But you don’t. You see the opposite of what you’d expect with mixed and white ethnicities suffering the highest % of population experiencing DV.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/domesticabusevictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023?trk=public_post_comment-text

It's really starting to look that way, isn't it? God knows what can be done though.

In short, blaming immigrants and Islam as causes of unacceptable VAWG in the U.K. is scapegoating the other.

There is something in our own British culture & society that has created a centuries long permissive environment where men feel they can abuse women and girls with impunity.

VAWG isn’t in the U.K. because we’ve been influenced by others, it’s always been here and we cannot fix it without looking at our own mainstream society and culture.

There's plenty of proof in Europe. Check out this study in Sweden: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/ (The three academics who did the study were later prosecuted for publishing it.)

Germany: "Figures released by the Federal Criminal Police Office of Germany (BKA) in 2022 revealed that a total of 677 gang rapes were recorded in 2021, up from 300 in 2018. Although non-German citizens comprise just 13.7 per cent of the country’s total population, they were suspects in exactly half of those cases.
Nationals from Turkey, Afghanistan, and Syria were the most commonly represented among alleged sexual offenders, according to the government, which cited figures from the Federal Statistical Office of Germany.
A separate report from the BKA earlier that same year also indicated that from 2009 to 2020 the proportion of non-German suspects in group sexual assault cases grew from 29.55 per cent to 41.18 per cent, while recorded cases of sexual assault jumped from 35 per cent to 50 per cent."

There's also evidence of disproportionate migrant involvement in sexual assaults in other European countries. A lot of inconvenient truth for left wing feminism. Ignoring the impact of immigration on women and girls is no different to ignoring the impact of trans activism on women and girls. Time to stop the gaslighting.

Sorry, but we are taking about VAWG in the U.K., not Sweden.
British culture is not Swedish culture.
Offending patterns are not the same.

If you can find evidence that is for the U.K., I would be interested to see it as everything posted so far on the thread shows that British men are more violent than immigrant men.

It is quite possible for British men to be more violent than immigrant men and the men of other European countries too. The data is incomplete and Swedish men or men of other European countries can’t really be used as proxies for British men.

Nothing personal @Midnightalready but I posted the full fact studies upthread that by and large used EU-wide data regarding immigration from outside Europe and its lack of impact on VAWG, but Eastern Standard dismissed them because they were “EU only” which is fair. We really should be looking at the U.K.

So if EU studies are irrelevant when they don’t show an increase in VAWG due to immigration, then, to be consistent, other studies outside the U.K. which do show an increase in VAWG due to immigration must also be excluded as irrelevant.

That is why the focus moved onto what UK data we do have.

The problem is men themselves don't care.

This issue came up on Newsnight. I told DP it was important and he should watch the news story. He engaged with it for two minutes and then went back to watching his phone.

Minutes later he was getting all angry with Trump.

But not getting angry about violence toward women and girls. Or the Dutch athlete who raped a 12 year old and his life carries on.

We have two DDs, aged 12 and 15.

I tell him to get angry and he says why gave a go at him??

Joan Smith has written about VAWG and the riots in Unherd and made a different comparison

https://unherd.com/us/newsroom/why-are-rioters-being-punished-more-harshly-than-some-rapists/

I doubt we'll ever see Starmer staring down the lens of a camera and telling rapists and wife-beaters 'we're coming for you'. Because, well because it would be so untrue it would be laughable. As a gesture it would be nice though. Night courts, yes! Extra prison cells, super! Ever gonna happen? Not a chance.

The below article explains exactly why we have the problems we do with mvawg theu haven't even expelled him

Shock as primary school boy threatens to stab and rape a girl https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13722483/Primary-school-boy-threatens-stab-rape-girl.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

And yet we "don't have two tier policing". I would suggest that we actually have multi-tier policing.

Perhaps policing is on a spectrum! 😳