"Violence against women a ‘national emergency’ in England and Wales"

[Omlettes]

Jesus Wept!
"National Police Chiefs’ Council analysis reveals 2m women a year estimated to be victims of male violence"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/23/violence-against-women-national-emergency-england-wales-police

I presume that means 1 in 10 men??

Goos spot - I missed that one. Yes, 2.3 million is about 5% of the total adult population. So it's 1 in 10 men, not 1 in 20.

Yes but never forget NAMALT #sarcasm

It's shocking but unsurprising to me given how little effort has been put in by the last government. In fact I think the "war on woke" made it considerably worse.

I'm looking forward to seeing the details of the VAWG strategy but really to be effective some kind of control of the Internet is required. Violent degrading porn is causing a lot of the imo, by giving young men unrealistic views of violence against women.

I don't think this is surprising. Alcohol has been implicated in DV, and in assaults generally, for ages.

Drugs seem to becoming more and more prevalent in society. In the library world where I work it's now normative to have sharps containers in public washrooms, and no, it's not really to accommodate diabetes. The number of people shooting up in our facility, in a small town, is unbelievable. Needles are all over parks and wooded areas.

It's kind of inevitable that this would lead to DV situations, for all kinds of reasons. I don't expect it to be tackled though, in my experience people working with addicts are still largely in the grip of "harm reduction".

These men do not appear thin air. They are children first. These 4 and 5 year old boys who come in to reception with no parenting and no boundaries and parents who will continually blame the school for their child’s appalling behaviours. These boys start hitting teachers (almost always female) and parents defend them - they are only 4/5 they don’t know what they are doing? They are just babies etc and fight against any consequences. At 7/8, they are hitting staff regularly and the excuses multiply - they are neurodiverse, they are anxious, they were triggered etc so it’s your (female teachers fault) they hit you. These boys literally are “taught” this “lesson” - when you hit a female, it’s their fault for not meeting your need. And we wonder how we end up with hordes of men who think it’s ok to hit a woman when they perceive their needs aren’t being met. It starts with parenting and ends with parents accepting responsibility for their boys action and not defending their actions and blaming the women (female teachers) around them

And I have to agree - the chaos in a lot of schools is not unrelated. It's not all down to porn. We aren't teaching or expecting children to self-regulate. About anything really.

Not to mention an inability to say no to men, and a fundamental unconscious but accepted belief in this country that men are of value and women are not.

To the point of women's equality and access, safety and dignity, consent and right to not be used as a male resource, is actually being questioned, because it involves limits on the freedoms, self expression and sexual expression of men.

To the point that it has become clear that women's rights and spaces were only ever seen as a gesture of good will to women, on loan, and women should now graciously accept men redirecting these (and those women) to serve the purposes of other men.

This entitlement, without it being accepted to see women as subhuman, without this enabling of violent behaviour and unequal standards of expectations, is part and parcel of the manure that this 'national emergency' has grown in.

But I suspect addressing it at its roots will be dodged.

“Not to mention an inability to say no to men, and a fundamental unconscious but accepted belief in this country that men are of value and women are not.”

Absolutely this ….. because it is predominantly women (mothers) fighting schools defending the violent actions of their sons. And before anyone has a go that I’m victim blaming …… I’m not ….Im stating a fact. I’m saying the inability to say no to men is so deeply ingrained.

For this to be solved, we need an exponential increase in child psychologists
& qualified behavioral therapist (not a willing TA who is just an alternative punch bag) in every cluster of school and mandatory referral of boys who hit teachers with intensive therapy for parents and child. Participantion should be mandatory back up by enforcement action.

The oppression of women by men runs so bloody deep it's the water we swim in. It's hard to even see or discern it. It takes a lifetime to grasp it, all the layers, the thousands and thousands of tiny decisions and stories that add up to men being posited as the default, superior sex. Might is right. We despise women for their oppression, and for fighting their oppression. For playing along iwth the patriarchy, trying to accommodate it, trying to escape it, trying to question it, fight it, counter it.

But we always have done and always do, and the resistance of women and the sisterhood you find there is the thing that makes it bearable.

No man can ever begin to understand. Any man that suggests he has an ounce of a claim to call himself a woman is heaping that final, outrageous insult onto women on top of the shit we already have to carry. And quite often, they bloody well know it.

This has to be a whole society approach. Everything has to be looked at through the prism of women's safety ‐ no mixed sex changing rooms, no mixed sex dormitories, no mixed sex toilets etc.

This government can't claim to be serious about VAWG if it removes the only long standing rights we have.
It's like the courses for rapists which just turned out more dangerous men who learned from each other. Respect for women starts with small things -like taking no for an answer.

So disturbing.

I can believe porn addiction and grooming by influencers like Tate is a big factor.

When left to it, I think male children can very easily get to a lord of the flies type situation if not supervised. This is the result of no online supervision?

I think the internet has a lot to answer for. I also wonder if lack of parenting also has a lot to answer for too.

We get children coming into schools that aren't toilet trained / using cutlery / brushing their teeth. So the basics aren't being bothered with by parents. This is neglect, I'd say children not being parented on behaviour and attitudes/online content is neglect too.

It's so worrying. I'd agree social media is like an experimental drug, good points but comes with major side effects.

And the data gathering of male violence against women and children needs to be based 100% on the sex of the offender not his appearance, self-identification or possession of any certificate.

Excellent points. I wonder if the number of boys being raised in families without a decent role model is a factor too.

Excellent points. I wonder if the number of boys being raised in families without a decent role model is a factor too.

Is there a shared understanding of "decent role model"? A fair number of couples/families seem to have at least one decent role model even if (the) other one/s isn't/aren't particularly striking one way or another.

What sort of family structure? Is this recent? Is there a reason why it would be aggravated in comparatively recent times?

One argument is that boys don't have decent role models but VAWAG has always existed irrespective of role models. This is a societal problem as well as a parental one.

Boys are being socialised to be aggressive and disrespectful to girls.

The number of single parent families has risen significantly over the last 20 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281640/single-parent-families-uk/

I think boys need good male role models. My son’s dad definitely wasn’t one as he barely saw him. Fortunately he was a keen scout and the leaders, one in particular, helped fill the gap.

And also dad's need to step up within their families. I 100% agree about with you re boys needing strong role models - I would argue a strong male role model.

I've seen this myself, as in, the lack of strong male role model, a number of times, leaving wayward boys to their own devices. Just lacking crucial guidance.

Many dads leave it all to mums because it suits them - they can't be arsed or are socialised into thinking it's the mother's role to do all the parenting.

I'm glad your son found a good male role model outside of the family. Not every parent is switched on to this I think.

I honestly believe that instead of prison they should all be thrown into a fucking zoo and made to live in it together. Absolute apes. No one wants you in society, please kill yourself or live like a baboon in a zoo.

Thank you. I am too. Scouts was the making of him, it helped that his grandad modelled respect for women to him as well.

That may be happening now, but when my adult daughter was at school, and actually when I was at school, it was the teachers sitting the naughty boys next to quiet, sensible girls and holding those girls responsible for poor behaviour, or telling girls that when boys are mean to them and hurt them that it’s just monkey love - lack of emotional regulation, liking a girl and not knowing how to handle it so resorting to hitting, hair pulling and other delights. Perhaps the behaviour of boys in schools is getting more out of control partly because our examples growing up is that it’s ok for boys to treat girls like this.

Girls are literally conditioned one way or another to allow boys/men to treat them badly. It’s hardly rocket science that this behaviour is escalating. Sadly it’s also entirely predictable that men (and some women) will defend porn use and uphold the status quo whilst wringing their hands and wondering what on earth is going on.

Totally agree. I don’t think this happens to the extent it did but there is still an element of sitting explosive boys next to compliant girl to try and moderate the boys behaviour. It does not work. I do think the “boys will be boys” mentality is changing in schools and is less acceptable but teachers have internalized the misogyny as they are part of society.
However, having been in education for 26 years (I’ve left now never to return) I can not express the utter insanity of parents now and their utter disregard for teachers and other children in pursuit of excusing / enabling violent behaviour from their boys. It’s beyond all reason and until that’s addressed, the rest will all be too little too late

Obviously when stuff like this comes up people will look at all different factors.

Labour's response to this previously (when looking at Labour's Mayor or London) has been to run adverts asking men not to do stuff; the "Maaate" adverts, the "starring is a sexual offence" adverts, and not a lot actual measures put in place like more security at stations etc. It seems that the only men receptive to the messaging were the decent men who weren't/aren't sexual offenders, whilst the actual offenders just ignored the messaging.

My concern with doing lessons in schools, would be that the truant children who most likely would go on to be sexually aggressive won't actually be there to get the lessons and you do run the risk of resentment from others.

I think there's got to be a better way to through to those who will go on to offend.

I suppose as people have said it's a lack of role models, and I think it's more productive to give people examples of how to behave instead of how not to behave. Be positive, not negative.

It's not unusual for children to go through primary school without coming across any male teachers, and for boys from single parent families that's quite a miss.

My concern with doing lessons in schools, would be that the truant children who most likely would go on to be sexually aggressive won't actually be there to get the lessons and you do run the risk of resentment from others.

I think there's got to be a better way to through to those who will go on to offend.*

You're making the mistake of thinking that it's a certain class of man who offends. It's not. VAWAG is perpuated by men from every facet of society.

Domestic abuse is very well hidden and carries on in secret. Nice boys at my university, middle class boys with nice parents, were just as bad as hoodies on a street corner.

it was the teachers sitting the naughty boys next to quiet, sensible girls and holding those girls responsible for poor behaviour

Years ago there was an eye-opening thread where posters recounted the consequences of teachers using them in this way (including punishment beatings administered to the girls by the boys).

when stuff like this comes up people will look at all different factors

Including the reporting and publicity value of 'celebrities and public figures who behave badly'. But I don't know how radical a social revision that would imply…

I saw some good posters at Stirling University last year, explaining what was not OK in sex/relationships and giving alternatives.