"Violence against women a ‘national emergency’ in England and Wales"

[Omlettes]

Jesus Wept!
"National Police Chiefs’ Council analysis reveals 2m women a year estimated to be victims of male violence"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/23/violence-against-women-national-emergency-england-wales-police

I've nrtft so apologies if this has been covered already. I saw articles yesterday with the police apparently blaming some of this on influencers like Andrew Tate. I caught this piece in Unherd by Joan Smith which is a bit of a corrective

https://unherd.com/newsroom/is-andrew-tate-to-blame-for-violence-against-women-or-a-distraction/

It doesn't let Tate or the Police off the hook.

I mean, Freakonomics isn't exactly considered a reliable bit of analysis, is it. He's all over the place.

This is crazy. I think he was talking about of his ass. I don't think they ever have had any intent to make this happen.

I am not sure I agree. I have a twenty year old son and the amount of anti-woman Incel type content he's been pushed on social media is unbelievable. It really does feel like radicalisation and I've had to have a lot of conversations I really don't want to have (about sex, porn, relationships) to try to counter it.

The type of stuff I mean is:

• endless videos about "false allegations of rape"
• scaremongering about the "kill all men" feminist movement and how feminists are actually killing men and causing them to commit suicide
• Andrew Tate-esque nonsense about how women are prioritised and protected over men
• videos purporting to be asking men and women "the same question" apparently showing that women hold men to different standards, that on deeper analysis turn out to be bollocks. E.g. the one he showed me, the question was "your partner tells you you've gained weight and they no longer find you attractive, what do you do?" The majority of women said they'd tell him to do one. The majority of men said they'd lose weight for the woman they loved. My son called me to show me this proves women are worse partners than men. On researching, a vital part of the question was missed. The question asked of women was "You've recently had a baby and...".

I'm sick of it. I'm not sure who is/are behind these campaigns but it's a huge problem that isn't going to be solved purely by policing and is fucking our sons up.

"Men who hate women" by Laura Bates is good on this.

OK. Maybe let's give them a bit longer than 3 weeks before we decide shall we?

Same.
This idea that men are trying to do the best for their children by walking away from them is straight out of the MRA playbook. I'd expect better from you, you make quite a lot of good points on many topics.

I will certainly be very very very pleased to be wrong if he comes anywhere close to succeeding on this commitment.

He did a very good job at supporting vulnerable victims and increasing conviction rates for rape when he was DPP.

If anyone can do this he can. That's mainly why I was so keen to see him elected and so annoyed about the "Labour hate women" wittering. If he does this it have such a huge impact in terms of making life better for women in the UK. And I wanted to give him the chance to do it. Wouldn't trust any other politician as much as none of them have the track record.

Time will tell. Going from 2 million to 1 million reported crimes within a 5 year period (or even 10 years) is going to be quite an achievement. It’ll be interesting to see what policies they implement that will have the effect of changing male attitudes towards women so rapidly. Speeding up conviction rates isn’t going to change the fact that the violence is happening in the first instance. I’m just really intrigued how they intend to tackle this.

I wish you could like posts more than once. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Yes, I figured you thought that as I do too. It’s not reliable, it’s people just connecting dots without any real basis or logic to do so.

This thread has dots being connected like that- ie more immigration, and addition of the internet has made VAWG go up, which is contrary to the actual observed trends.

They must have actual stats of the rates of male immigrant attacks on women and girls mustn't they? I wonder why they don't release them. this could swiftly put to bed the argument that immigrant males were not in any way responsible for an increase in violence against women and girls.

Or perhaps they don't collect the data.

Why would they need to when it is clear that there hasn’t been an increase in VAWG, but a decrease? The Guardian article irresponsibly conflates an increase in reporting with an increase in violence.

Because a decrease could be due to other factors?
Why be vague when you can be specific?

You do know that he was dpp and on the panel that decided that child abusers didn't have to go to jail previously it was a crime that came with a mandatory jail sentence.
I don't trust that man anymore than I would Stergeon

In studies done on crime committed by immigrants vs British citizens they have always found a lower rate of offending across the board for interpersonal violence. You could Google some of the studies.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigrants-and-crime/

All I'm saying is that it would have been good for them to have addressed this in the report. Up to date stats would be relevant at a time when we are seeing record levels of immigration of young men from countries where attitudes towards women are much worse than they are here.

If the argument is that the society in which you live has some influence on shaping male attitudes towards women and girls does this idea not also apply to those men coming in from countries where attitudes to women are far worse than they are here?

This makes no sense. So yes, I'm sure I do know whatever smear you are trying to make because I've become very familiar with Reform and far right misinformation about starmer but you've garbled it so much I'm not entirely sure which bit of made up rubbish you mean

The ONS is in the process of improving its approach to domestic violence data collection as it is not in line with legislation.

The way domestic abuse manifests is constantly changing. To ensure our statistics continue to provide the most accurate information and meet the needs of users, over the last few years we have undertaken a user engagement, research, and testing programme to improve the collection of data on domestic abuse. We have developed new questions on domestic abuse as part of the self-completion section of the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW). The new questions aim to meet the main requirements for domestic abuse data.

We have included the new survey questions on the CSEW from April 2023 as part of a split-sample trial and present these here alongside our plans for measuring prevalence of domestic abuse and controlling or coercive behaviour. The criteria which will be used to evaluate the success of the new domestic abuse survey questions are also outlined.

A user survey conducted in 2020 highlighted several issues with the survey questions and data currently collectedGiven these issues, significant changes to the questions were needed, in turn suggesting that a wider programme of improvements was required.https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/methodologies/developinganewmeasureofdomesticabuseapril2023

So you think the report should go through every prejudice regarding violent crime and reassure readers of the facts?

So as well as reassuring those xenophobes prejudiced against immigrants, should they have also addressed the fears of racists that Black men are not more dangerous than white men? Or that lower class men are not more likely to attack women than middle class men? And so on?

Really?! Do you ever listen to yourself?

Looks like somebody doesn’t want multi-factorial data collected and published. Afraid of what it might show?

Please don’t misrepresent what I am asking. My question isn’t about race or ethnicity or class. It’s about men’s attitudes towards women and whether or not the society in which men have predominantly existed influences their attitudes towards women.

If socialisation and the social environment in which men are raised play no role in MVAWG then how on earth do we even start to tackle the epidemic of violence that we face?

Signal box,
you said that the report on VAWG should have addressed the “record levels of immigration of young men from countries where attitudes towards women are much worse than they are here” with “up to date stats”

You were under the mistaken impression that immigrant men are more likely to commit violent crimes than British men. I had already posted the full fact website showing you the opposite is true. But you still wanted the report to address immigrant men and VAWG even though there is absolutely ZERO evidence that immigration from “countries where attitudes towards women are much worse than they are here” has had any impact on VAWG in the U.K.

Why would you want the report to address what is clearly xenophobic prejudice? It is not different from a racist asking for the report to address the common racist prejudice that Black men are more violent than white men, Muslim men more violent than Christian men…blah blah.

I am not saying society has no role in the cause of male violence, but what I am saying is that your repeated assertion that immigrant men are a cause of higher violence rates than it should be is a crock of shit.

There is no “epidemic of violence” !!!
We are not facing an increase in violence.
Violence has steadily gone down by 66% since its peak in 1994.

I posted the full fact website that links to studies that have done this analysis and every single study has shown that British men are more likely to be violent offenders than immigrant men.

Throwing around the terms racist, xenophobic and anti-immigrant and misrepresenting other people’s arguments used to work quite well as a tactic to shut people up but I think it has much less effect than it used to.