KJK Live streams being sacked from her GPs surgery - trans staff member

[HootyMcBooby]

Forward to 19.15 for the actual phone call.

KJK confrontation with trans staff member at her GPs surgery.

This ideology has no place in the NHS.
As someone whose Mother, aged 72, had a stroke and waited in an NHS corridor on a trolley for 16 hours only to be asked as the doctors FIRST question....... "how do you identify?", I feel the NHS is captured beyond hope,

It's a shame I'm normally quite open minded.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight.

Pronoun pins serve the same purpose as a name bage - to let others know what to call them. Throwing tantrums about them or trying to turn them into an attack on your beliefs is nothing but a distraction from conversations about actual issues facing women.

Why not drop the straw man and answer the question? Why wear pronoun badges?

That man's beliefs wouldn't pass the Grainger test. HTH.

So are we all pretending KJK didn’t just publicly celebrate swearing at and harassing not one but two NHS workers, and call for protests at their place of work?

Like if no one mentions it then it didn’t happen?

The contortions required are impressive.

I’m not convinced KJK is safe to be out and about, being this fragile about seeing a badge.

Especially given she sells stickers, badges, t-shirts etc that are actually activist, then raises hell at anyone critiquing those or taking them down.

How about 'why verbally abuse someone for wearing one'?

It's really not though is it.

I refer to Bert by name when I am speaking to Bert.

I refer to Bert as him when I am speaking about him to another person....so no pronouns and name badges are not the same thing at all. Why would you wish to suggest they are?

Yeah, I didn’t say any of that. Nice try.
I said there is no need to use the third person pronouns when interacting with a GP receptionist. You’d be a right nutter to go to a receptionist and use third person pronouns or woman/man

I approach a woman receptionist and

”Good morning woman, the touch screen is not working. I have an appointment at 9:30 could she mark me as arrived”
”Sorry what? Who?”
”She logs me in as arrived. she tells woman GP I am here.”
”Thats me, I do that “
”Thank you woman she”

KJK’s phone call to complain was harrassment. She wasn’t compelled to use any form of speech in the GP’s office to access GP services.

Did you miss the part where she swore at their staff, then told them she and her family were leaving the practice, before swearing at them some more, all whilst broadcasting live without their knowledge?

I don’t think anyone would have a problem demonstrating irretrievable breakdown of relationship.

How is a biological definition (factual reality) printed on a sticker or a jumper, comparable to the kind of activism used by TRAs?

Her thing is "Woman = Adult Human Female".

It's hardly a contentious statement for most sane people.

AGAIN.
Why wear the badge?

Who cares why? Not your body not your choice.

If wearing crucifixes are not a convert to Christianity or burn as a heretic right now attack on the anyone in public around them, then why the phobia over a little old pink, blue and white striped badge?

I'm not sure you're correct on that.

But regardless we're discussing manifestations of belief, not the beliefs themselves.

Given up on the compelled speech fallacy? Good. Progress.

Show that believing that women are "bitches" passes the Grainger Test or GTFO.

No it's not a fallacy.

You are almost as bad as the person KJK spoke to on the phone "I'm not listening, I'm not listening, I'm not listening".
You can keep saying it doesn't exist.
It doesn't make it so.

KJK got the definition from a dictionary, not a biology text book.
Dictionaries are regularly updated as language and meaning shift over time.

You have just articulated why pronoun badges aren't compelling any sort of belief or speech. Brava! KJK could absolutely have simply used the person's name and avoided referencing their gender and ignored the pin entirely.

Pronouns are often used in spoken and written language to reduce repetition and improve rhythm and flow. If you choose to use them in place of a name or title, you should use the indvidual's preferred ones just as you (hopefully) would use the name or title someone gave you to call them.

I often think this when I read about the gender critical/trans debate- if the worst thing about one's life is seeing pronoun badges then that's probably quite the level of privilege they have there.

Do you think people who are worried about how they're going to afford their next power bill/rent payment/food shop are going to have a meltdown if they see someone wear a pronoun badge somewhere?

Ah, I'd be really interested to hear the new definition of woman?

The Forstater judgement doesn't give anyone the right to harrass trans people in their workplace and it doesn’t allow for misgendering that discriminates against trans people. She’s posted on Twitter that she regrets her anger so even she - who almost never admits being wrong about anything - realises she crossed a line.

I've defended KJK in the past but I dislike her drift to more extreme positions and the cult-like behaviour of some of her followers.

So what's the point in her wearing a pronoun badge?

If you say so. You can’t even imagine how that conversation of compelled speech would go when faced with a Trans GP receptionist. You just sit there and insist that it would happen.

Only thing wrong with what I just watched was that she didn't inform the caller they were on air till the end. She was blunt and emotional during the call but not abusive. Her argument is sound ideology has no place in the gp practice and forcing people to use pronouns is not ok. We have had rulings on this recently? It's not legal to force compliance?

Swearing or shouting at staff is not ok. We don't have a recording of her interaction at the dr surgery to know if she behaved appropriately there.

I really do agree with her but she should not have taken that call on air. It named the surgery and the staff member said her name. That should have been edited out before playing to the public in my opinion

Are you seriously suggesting that thinking that all women are "bitches" would be found to be worthy of protection in a democratic society?

If you can't manifest a belief, you can't hold it in practice. The whole reason why Forstater went to tribunal was because she manifested her gender critical beliefs outside of work and was fired for it.

language changes and evolves through shared understanding and consensus. Otherwise we would be talking gibberish and no one would understand what we are on about.

I'm not quite ready to give up language that refers clearly to men and women, female and males, shes and hes. I don't think I am alone. I can't approve of changing the meaning of words with biological implications, particularly in healthcare, where accuracy could be critical

You could expend your energies creating something new and exciting. New words get added to the lexicon everyday..