KJK Live streams being sacked from her GPs surgery - trans staff member

[HootyMcBooby]

Forward to 19.15 for the actual phone call.

KJK confrontation with trans staff member at her GPs surgery.

This ideology has no place in the NHS.
As someone whose Mother, aged 72, had a stroke and waited in an NHS corridor on a trolley for 16 hours only to be asked as the doctors FIRST question....... "how do you identify?", I feel the NHS is captured beyond hope,

If a man insisted on calling every woman on staff bitch and insisted that's just his belief, is that fine as well? We can't force him to alter his speech to suit the whims of anyone else after all.

Surprised you see this as a parallel, @AGoingConcern. If the man calls all women bitches because he believes they are, he is still not entitled to have everyone agree with him..

If he could demonstrate his belief meets the criteria to be "worthy of respect in a democratic society" (unlikely in this case) he might be entitled to continue referring to women as bitches.

He would still not entitled to demand others' agreement, to insist everyone else calls women bitches, or to be sheltered from differing viewpoints.

See how this works?

Well, that would make sense if only Christian people wore so called Christian jewellery.
A cross no longer represents Christianity in and of itself, it is a shape used in many jewellery designs and worn by many faiths and non-believers.
Not sure what you mean by cut and paste either.

And again - those symbols, regardless of why they are worn, DO NOT REQUIRE THE COMPELLED BELIEF AND SPEECH OF OTHER NON-PARTICIPATING INDIVIDUALS.

I don't believe changing sex is possible, and I don't understand gender at all - I don't believe I have a gender, and I seems to me like it's just a bunch of stereotypes. But I still think the way she spoke to the receptionist and the way she behaved went too far and was unacceptable. Even before she described the conversations she had, her description of the receptionist as a boring woman who listens to radio 2 and probably has a crochet circle came across as pretty spiteful, and it just got worse from there.

"I've had to leave my GP surgery due to an activist working there."

What does "activist" even mean at this point. It seems anyone who is gay, trans or an ally of gay/trans people is now an "activist" even if they don't do anything other than call out homophobia/transphobia. Or in some cases, nothing. Such as this case we have a trans employee who was approached by KJK.

Is the use of "activist" some sort of manipulative name-calling to make people think a certain way about certain people?

You seem confused about the analogy. This hypothetical man is insisting only on his right to call women what he believes they are, not insisting anyone else do anything. That's his sincerely held belief just like you believe trans women are men, and he's angry anyone is trying to force him to pretend anything else. "Compelled speech!" he shouts. These bitches and their puppets are trying to force me to participate in their delusion that women aren't bitches by forcing me to call them something else.

The man can believe all women are bitches. He can refer to them aloud as she/her/a woman while privately thinking "bitch" to himself all day long. But it doesn't mean people can't insist that in public spaces he treat others with the basic respect of calling them what they wish to be called.

Interacting with a receptionist wearing a pronoun badge does not require compelled speech or beliefs.

I talk to receptionists usually when the checkin touch screen doesn’t work which is hardly ever and never once would I refer to them in the third person, so rhe pronouns if he/she him/her never get used. Nor would I ever address them as “Miss” or “Sir” like a school child.

Good morning. I have an appointment at 8:30? Name is Ima Biggot

Thank you!

Or speaking to the GP…”Yes the receptionist is really nice….”

No one is compelling your speech or your beliefs. At all. Pure dramatics.

Except it DOES require compelled speech.

She was told not to refer to the person as a woman.
Several times.

A cross no longer represents Christianity

Yeah right. Just like the Star of David ain’t Jewish, and the sickle moon ain’t Muslim and the Swastika ain’t Nazi. 😂 pull the other one.

Thus revealing her MH struggle in full flow.

Once again, because you seem to have missed it, KJK is an atheist.
It clearly doesn't represent Christianity to HER.

WTAF was that? An inarticulate, scattergun of a rant, by a woman proud to have abused someone publicly because they dare to wear a pronoun badge. The way she described this hapless employee was riddled with hate, and anyone on this branch who says that wasn't transphobic is deluded. She completely dehumanised that person and WAS PROUD OF IT

I watched that and am entirely appalled. She's an embarrassment to the cause, and I'm horrified that virtually everyone in this thread is blind to her abuse of that person and her blatant transphobia on that occasion, and during that podcast. Not just that, they're cheering her on.

Seriously, this branch has lost any decency it ever had if you all think that was laudable. I'm embarrassed to be GC right now.

ETA that when I look back it's not quite 'nearly everyone' and I need to acknowledge a few brave souls who've also gone against the grain.

She decided to call her “woman” when it was completely unnecessary to the purpose of accessing the GP surgery. Compelled speech is only compelled when you are forced to say something either under duress or out of necessity.

There is no part of an interaction with a receptionist to access the surgery that requires the use of the words, woman/man, he/her, she/him.

It will be unsurprising if other GPs are reluctant to have her on their books.

Then it begs the question.
Why wear the pronoun badges?

@AGoingConcern - my belief DOES meet the criteria to be "worthy of respect in a democratic society". I can refer to a 'trans man' as a woman because she's a female human, and that's what a woman is.

You and the bearded female can disagree with me. That's how rights work.

The point of wearing certain symbols being problematic was NOT based on how the wearer feels about the symbol, but about “forcing others around them to participate in an unwanted belief system (pejoratively referred to as a delusion)” by wearing it in a public facing role at work.

I suppose when you can’t defend your original point, it makes sense to declare it is now backwards day and the point you said was the opposite of what you meant.

Why wear crucifixes?

You'd think since the Cass report and WPATH emails the NHS would not be encouraging staff to wear silly lanyards and badges - let's stick to the point NHS

She is probably gearing up to sue the NHS and will start a GoFundMe to pay her and her family’s medical bills. 😭 with her sob story of being banned from the NHS by evil TRA activists and 😭 so please please fund her BUPA bill.

'Transphobia' really isn't the tarring and feathering pp's think it is. I'm fairly sure that accusations of transphobia do not carry the weight and fear that they once did. I probably am transphobic by the measure of the rhetoric here, but I'm still quite good at my job and it doesn't appear to hurt anyone.

I'd suggest healthcare professionals should try to not make themselves the most needy person in the room, and remember they are likely to be in contact with people at their most vulnerable.

I'm not sure what the receptionist is trying to achieve by alerting to her preferred pronouns and badge. Is she hoping this will create connection with patients? Or are patients her props? Because they are vulnerable and need something from her? Patients will likely try very hard to get it right for fear they will get poor service...which feels a little exploitative. I have utmost respect for front facing colleagues on receptions, they really do run the full range of human experience in a single day, they aren't normally so thin skinned.

I was interested in the point a pp made that wearing a trans pin is akin to wearing a crucifix or presumably a hijab or a Kippah. If religious coded jewellary or clothing is the same as rainbows and badges, then trans is a religion then? A belief system if you will?

But ....my Christian and Muslim colleagues do not demand I use their belief system to frame our conversations. In quiet times we do sometimes talk about faith and festivals, it is interesting and I wonder how my lack of faith apears to them. I enjoy having these connections and shared understanding with colleagues.

Sadly I have not felt the same in my engagements with trans issues at work its always so pious and threatening. I have found myself avoiding engagement with those bearing rainbow lanyards because I have concluded, through experience, they are often either poorly informed or delusional. It's a shame I'm normally quite open minded.

Ah, so says the person who says pronouns are really never used anyway and there is no need to refer to someone using their pronouns, but is simultaneously defending the person wearing the pronoun badge being worn for apparently no reason......
And it IS absolutely compelled speech. The inference is obviously because KJK refused to refer to this person as a man, used biological reality, and called this person "she" (and was corrected several times on the phone), that she would be sacked from the practice because she would not use the chosen language.
How is that not compelled speech? Use our approved language, or lose your rights / privileges. Do this, or there will be consequences.

Are you trying to pretend that sex-based pronouns, as accepted by almost everyone without contention, are comparable to misogynist slurs?

Was KJ tricked by the practice into saying the words 'irretrievable breakdown'?

This is from the bma www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/gp-practices/managing-your-practice-list/removing-patients-from-your-practice-list

"The removal of a patient from a GP practice list should be a rare event. Reasons include:

• disagreement between the practice and patient, and an irretrievable breakdown of the relationship"

I really feel KJK's anger although I wonder if it's more a sense of fear towards her and her family. Our GP surgery is a place where we put our trust in professionals with our most intimate medical information. It's as though seeing the lanyard/badge on the receptionist was a perceived threat. In view of the way KJK has been treated in the past I get it. But I don't think this kind of confrontation is going to end well for anyone. Like it or not trans people are going to be in front facing roles and have rights to feel safe and respected. It works both ways though and trans people cannot insist on the rest of the population affirming their beliefs. We see the reality with our own eyes and we cannot be forced to say something that isn't true.

I don't think it was right for KJK to take that call and broadcast it on her livestream.

This.

I’m disgusted at how she just behaved on that video. She’s crossed a line imo.